Why did Nietzsche oppose certain Stoic beliefs?

[GoldenxChild1]

I have read the Enchiridion, some of the discourses, and I am on book 7 of Mediations. I personally agree with almost all of the Stoic principles. It has helped me tremendously in everyday life.

However, I had a thought that the reason why there are different philosophical sects is because there are different types of souls. I am attracted to Stoicism because my emotional nature is practical and realistic due to it's earth qualities.

I also attest it is racial as well, take Bushido for example, the way of the Samurai. There are similarities between all great philosophies but each of them has a unique taste to it, and I think that is what separates the races and the individual souls.

Nietzsche disagreed with some Stoic principles that he found contradicting to his own beliefs. Based of what I've read he says that Stoics can be self delusional in the sense they let things happen as they happen while holding it indifferent, but he agrees that the thoughts dye the soul.

What do you guys think of Stoicism?

 

[CaspianTheDreamer]

I have read the Enchiridion, some of the discourses, and I am on book 7 of Mediations. I personally agree with almost all of the Stoic principles. It has helped me tremendously in everyday life.

However, I had a thought that the reason why there are different philosophical sects is because there are different types of souls. I am attracted to Stoicism because my emotional nature is practical and realistic due to it's earth qualities.

I also attest it is racial as well, take Bushido for example, the way of the Samurai. There are similarities between all great philosophies but each of them has a unique taste to it, and I think that is what separates the races and the individual souls.

Nietzsche disagreed with some Stoic principles that he found contradicting to his own beliefs. Based of what I've read he says that Stoics can be self delusional in the sense they let things happen as they happen while holding it indifferent, but he agrees that the thoughts dye the soul.

What do you guys think of Stoicism?

I personally am very suspicious of it. The very idea of not expressing any emotion and " just taking it " sound really xian to me. Not to mention that you cant even express good emotions and sensations in that doctrine, pleasure even. I dont think there is any concrete or good, valid reasoning behind that and again, it sounds really like a cheap rip off religion that the jew on the street will try to sell you and i dont think it has anything to do with the Earth element and its attributes. Earth element is feminine and nurtures, is a groundwork for other elements and relates to the physical world, and the " stoic essence " of this element isnt really the same thing as Stoicism. Stoicism ( or perhaps the way it has been twisted and portrayed in this modern age by the enemy idk it might be a completely different thing in its origins) just sounds like xianity but in greek clothes.

But still, we must be open to better interpretations. I still doubt it has any real knowledge or power though.

 

[Alexandros Iowno [JG]]

This argues in essence the evolution of man in time. Stoic fulfills the immediate necessity, in the present time as a tool of molding and overcoming, yet can fail seeking the higher reasons, being something of self absorption. On a purpose of future self, one can argue other nuances and so on, in patterning of the individual character, position in life, desires and future.

It all comes down to psychological shaping and structure, which can be built with all of them, but one must also use to go beyond these, as a tool not as leaning on "it".

 

[GoldenxChild1]

This argues in essence the evolution of man in time. Stoic fulfills the immediate necessity, in the present time as a tool of molding and overcoming, yet can fail seeking the higher reasons, being something of self absorption. On a purpose of future self, one can argue other nuances and so on, in patterning of the individual character, position in life, desires and future.

It all comes down to psychological shaping and structure, which can be built with all of them, but one must also use to go beyond these, as a tool not as leaning on "it".

Wow thanks for the reply NP, you really confirmed other thoughts I had like Stoicism was good for the period of time it was in and parts of can be used as a tool for the present, as with other philosophies as well. I will do my best not to lean too heavily on a specific sect and to take wisdom from each of them while standing apart.

 

[GoldenxChild1]

I have read the Enchiridion, some of the discourses, and I am on book 7 of Mediations. I personally agree with almost all of the Stoic principles. It has helped me tremendously in everyday life.

However, I had a thought that the reason why there are different philosophical sects is because there are different types of souls. I am attracted to Stoicism because my emotional nature is practical and realistic due to it's earth qualities.

I also attest it is racial as well, take Bushido for example, the way of the Samurai. There are similarities between all great philosophies but each of them has a unique taste to it, and I think that is what separates the races and the individual souls.

Nietzsche disagreed with some Stoic principles that he found contradicting to his own beliefs. Based of what I've read he says that Stoics can be self delusional in the sense they let things happen as they happen while holding it indifferent, but he agrees that the thoughts dye the soul.

What do you guys think of Stoicism?

I personally am very suspicious of it. The very idea of not expressing any emotion and " just taking it " sound really xian to me. Not to mention that you cant even express good emotions and sensations in that doctrine, pleasure even. I dont think there is any concrete or good, valid reasoning behind that and again, it sounds really like a cheap rip off religion that the jew on the street will try to sell you and i dont think it has anything to do with the Earth element and its attributes. Earth element is feminine and nurtures, is a groundwork for other elements and relates to the physical world, and the " stoic essence " of this element isnt really the same thing as Stoicism. Stoicism ( or perhaps the way it has been twisted and portrayed in this modern age by the enemy idk it might be a completely different thing in its origins) just sounds like xianity but in greek clothes.

But still, we must be open to better interpretations. I still doubt it has any real knowledge or power though.

They never say to not express your emotions. And they don't actually say to "take" anything, but rather let external events unfold around you as they should in accordance to the nature of what they are, while keeping your mind in a healthy disposition instead of being moved by something that is separate from your will. As for the earth, I should have said more in the aspects of being practical, patient, disciplined, dependable, reliable, and conventional. As for pleasure seeking, I can see both sides, as anything in excess is damaging, but being resistant to pleasure and pain can have a tremendous upside. Stoicism also seeks virtue, or Eudemonia, being good with your daemon, your soul. If you haven't, try to read more into it, especially the Meditations and the Enchiridion. Maybe you'll change your mind. 

Thanks for replying, I love debate.

 

[Jack]

I've never looked into stoicism. Can you explain the basic tenets about what this is ?

 

[CaspianTheDreamer]

I have read the Enchiridion, some of the discourses, and I am on book 7 of Mediations. I personally agree with almost all of the Stoic principles. It has helped me tremendously in everyday life.

However, I had a thought that the reason why there are different philosophical sects is because there are different types of souls. I am attracted to Stoicism because my emotional nature is practical and realistic due to it's earth qualities.

I also attest it is racial as well, take Bushido for example, the way of the Samurai. There are similarities between all great philosophies but each of them has a unique taste to it, and I think that is what separates the races and the individual souls.

Nietzsche disagreed with some Stoic principles that he found contradicting to his own beliefs. Based of what I've read he says that Stoics can be self delusional in the sense they let things happen as they happen while holding it indifferent, but he agrees that the thoughts dye the soul.

What do you guys think of Stoicism?

I personally am very suspicious of it. The very idea of not expressing any emotion and " just taking it " sound really xian to me. Not to mention that you cant even express good emotions and sensations in that doctrine, pleasure even. I dont think there is any concrete or good, valid reasoning behind that and again, it sounds really like a cheap rip off religion that the jew on the street will try to sell you and i dont think it has anything to do with the Earth element and its attributes. Earth element is feminine and nurtures, is a groundwork for other elements and relates to the physical world, and the " stoic essence " of this element isnt really the same thing as Stoicism. Stoicism ( or perhaps the way it has been twisted and portrayed in this modern age by the enemy idk it might be a completely different thing in its origins) just sounds like xianity but in greek clothes.

But still, we must be open to better interpretations. I still doubt it has any real knowledge or power though.

They never say to not express your emotions. And they don't actually say to "take" anything, but rather let external events unfold around you as they should in accordance to the nature of what they are, while keeping your mind in a healthy disposition instead of being moved by something that is separate from your will. As for the earth, I should have said more in the aspects of being practical, patient, disciplined, dependable, reliable, and conventional. As for pleasure seeking, I can see both sides, as anything in excess is damaging, but being resistant to pleasure and pain can have a tremendous upside. Stoicism also seeks virtue, or Eudemonia, being good with your daemon, your soul. If you haven't, try to read more into it, especially the Meditations and the Enchiridion. Maybe you'll change your mind. 

Thanks for replying, I love debate.

Alright then maybe i will look more into it in the future. but STILL i highly suggest you study these with a SS mindset or the satanic eye so to say. i personally think that the benefits of going into stoicism can all be achieved with the power meditations and the path of advancement given to us by the gods. personally, i am very much against letting things unfold before you without doing anything to make sure you are safe and prospering. because then advancement and becoming a god would be pointless if youre just gonna let everything happen just because nature dictates it. its true that we cannot fully go against mother natures laws but we are not supposed to be victims of circumstance either, if i were to describe the purpose of life in this universe it would be an ongoing battle between conscioussness and nature, with the conscious entities always advancing and looking for more ways to reap the benefits mother nature offers and to stay clean and unaffected by her wrath and her Saturn, so just letting things unfold purely by the dictates of nature sounds rather wrong to me because then what would be the point of using your magick to alter your fate or erase you negative karma if you are just gonna let nature take the wheel?
but either way can you please give me your sources of information and what books you have read on this. there could still be some points that i am missing but idk

 

[GoldenxChild1]

I've never looked into stoicism. Can you explain the basic tenets about what this is ?

The most basic explanation would be as the following:

Living in accordance and in conformity with nature in Mind, Body, and Soul. It encourages you to always focus on what you can control instead of what you cannot control. I will post just a snip of the Enchiridion to give you an example,

1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in
our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a
word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control
are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word,
whatever are not our own actions.

The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained,
unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish,
restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you
suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free,
and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be
hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will
find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that
only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to
others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you
or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or
accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one
will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you not be
harmed.

So whatever is independent of your will shouldn't move your own will which can only be moved by itself on itself.

Which is why the famous quote my Marcus Aurelius goes- “If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself but to your own estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.”

Stoics say not to be carried away by appearances as they are just an appearance and not absolutely the thing which they appear to be.

Many people believe Stoics allow injustice to them but it's that they revere the nature of whatever they are observing.

Does your car break down? This must of been the right thing for it to do because the conditions were met.
Were you pelted in the face by a flying rock? Well the wind must of been blowing in that way to lift a rock and hit you in the face.
Has someone insulted you? It must seem true to him who is insulting you even though it is not true to you so he is deceived by his own impressions of you.

If in any circumstance that externals move your mind then you have taken yourself out of the natural flow of nature as you are reaching your desire to control something that is not yours to control.

In meditation Marcus Aurelius said Eudemonia, to be good with your daemon, your soul. This done by acting with virtue in a small explanation.

I could go further and further but I think this is enough.

 

[Jack]

I've never looked into stoicism. Can you explain the basic tenets about what this is ?

The most basic explanation would be as the following:

Living in accordance and in conformity with nature in Mind, Body, and Soul. It encourages you to always focus on what you can control instead of what you cannot control. I will post just a snip of the Enchiridion to give you an example,

1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in
our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a
word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control
are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word,
whatever are not our own actions.

The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained,
unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish,
restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you
suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free,
and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be
hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will
find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that
only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to
others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you
or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or
accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one
will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you not be
harmed.

So whatever is independent of your will shouldn't move your own will which can only be moved by itself on itself.

Which is why the famous quote my Marcus Aurelius goes- “If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself but to your own estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.”

Stoics say not to be carried away by appearances as they are just an appearance and not absolutely the thing which they appear to be.

Many people believe Stoics allow injustice to them but it's that they revere the nature of whatever they are observing.

Does your car break down? This must of been the right thing for it to do because the conditions were met.
Were you pelted in the face by a flying rock? Well the wind must of been blowing in that way to lift a rock and hit you in the face.
Has someone insulted you? It must seem true to him who is insulting you even though it is not true to you so he is deceived by his own impressions of you.

If in any circumstance that externals move your mind then you have taken yourself out of the natural flow of nature as you are reaching your desire to control something that is not yours to control.

In meditation Marcus Aurelius said Eudemonia, to be good with your daemon, your soul. This done by acting with virtue in a small explanation.

I could go further and further but I think this is enough.

I always say that the only thing one actually has control over is your actions. So thats interesting to know these guys from thousands of years ago thought the same way.

 

[GoldenxChild1]

I've never looked into stoicism. Can you explain the basic tenets about what this is ?

The most basic explanation would be as the following:

Living in accordance and in conformity with nature in Mind, Body, and Soul. It encourages you to always focus on what you can control instead of what you cannot control. I will post just a snip of the Enchiridion to give you an example,

1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in
our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a
word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control
are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word,
whatever are not our own actions.

The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained,
unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish,
restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you
suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free,
and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be
hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will
find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that
only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to
others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you
or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or
accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one
will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you not be
harmed.

So whatever is independent of your will shouldn't move your own will which can only be moved by itself on itself.

Which is why the famous quote my Marcus Aurelius goes- “If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself but to your own estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.”

Stoics say not to be carried away by appearances as they are just an appearance and not absolutely the thing which they appear to be.

Many people believe Stoics allow injustice to them but it's that they revere the nature of whatever they are observing.

Does your car break down? This must of been the right thing for it to do because the conditions were met.
Were you pelted in the face by a flying rock? Well the wind must of been blowing in that way to lift a rock and hit you in the face.
Has someone insulted you? It must seem true to him who is insulting you even though it is not true to you so he is deceived by his own impressions of you.

If in any circumstance that externals move your mind then you have taken yourself out of the natural flow of nature as you are reaching your desire to control something that is not yours to control.

In meditation Marcus Aurelius said Eudemonia, to be good with your daemon, your soul. This done by acting with virtue in a small explanation.

I could go further and further but I think this is enough.

I always say that the only thing one actually has control over is your actions. So thats interesting to know these guys from thousands of years ago thought the same way.

It also makes perfect sense. I feel like if we were taught these values from a young age we could of avoided much heartache. However, studying philosophy and practicing it are two different things. A lot of people study this stuff at university level and don't even bother applying it. They reduce it to just a theory.