"18 These bodies have an end;
but they are said to belong to the Eternal embodied self -
that which is never lost and cannot be measured.
So fight, Son of Bharata!
19 The one who perceives the self as a killer,
and the one who perceives the self as killed:
neither of them know that this self
does not kill,
nor is it killed.
20 The Self is not born
nor does it ever die.
Once it has been, the Self will never cease to be again.
Unborn, eternal, continuing from the old,
the self is not killed when the body is killed.
21 The one who knows the Eternal and the Indestructible,
that which is unborn and imperishable,
how does he cause to die son of Pritha,
and whom?
How does he kill, and whom?
22 Just as one throws out old clothes
and then takes on other, new ones;
so the embodied Self casts out old bodies
as it gets other, new ones.
23 Weapons do not cut the self,
nor does fire burn it,
nor do waters drench it,
nor does wind dry it
24 The Self is not to be pierced,
nor burned, nor drenched nor dried;
it is Eternal,
all-pervading and Fixed - unmoving from the beginning.
25 The Self is not readily seen;
by sight or mind;
it is said to be formless and unchanging;
so, when you have known this,
you should not mourn
26 And even if you think the Self
is
Eternally born or Eternally dead -
still, you should not mourn it,
Strong-Armed One
27 Death is fixed for those who are born,
and birth is fixed who die;
since such an end is certain,
you should not grieve
28 Son of Bharata, beings have beginnings
which are formless,
and middle states which
do have form
and deaths which again are formless;
Why would one grieve over this?
29 it is a wonder that anyone sees this,
and a wonder that anyone else speaks it,
and a wonder that yet another reads it.
Yet even when they've read it,
no one knows it at all.
30 Son of Bharata, the embodied self which exists in the body of everyone
is Eternally free from harm;
so you should not grieve for any living beings"
-Bhagavad Gita, Second discourse 18-30
Larissa666 said:
I am pretty sure that every individual has core personality that stays with them forever. Different natal charts and different upbringings and environmental facts through the lifetimes do affect you, but only so much.
The parts which represent the Fixed part of the soul in Astrology to my knowledge are the Sun, Pluto and Uranus(for us), and Venus and Mars in rough order of importance. The houses, and the angles in astrology along with the Cardinal parts are concerned with what we have to do with in the current lifetimes. There's a meshing with Venus and Mars because they rule both the Fixed and Cardinal parts so in understanding them, we would understand the operation of reincarnation I think. How it intertwines the eternal with the contemporary.
Also Saturn/Uranus' connection is to do with reincarnation too, in terms of the material side.
The Mutable parts are the changeable details which are usually benign but can be critical for a single lifetime, like Mercury and Jupiter, those are to do with the situation around which one is born in and not indicative of anything eternal on the soul, hence Mutability, ideas, luck etc. Those things are always on the move of time and not Fixed like the others. The fruits on the tree. The Moon is more indicative of the Eternal Mind, Mercury to do with the thinking patterns regarding the environment of the current incarnation which is the distinction of Mutability. Cardinality is the force part, it ties into the Fixed on 3 of the dual rulerships of it's signs whereas Mutability only ties like this, into other Mutable signs. The Moon is forceful in that understanding and not totally fixed, but retains and "clings to" a level of its development lifetime to lifetime like Water, unless this is degraded and damaged somehow, otherwise in development it's Eternal like the awakened Third eye and Pineal chakra in the illustrations (which the Moon rules, Mercury rules the neuter Heart chakra).
Larissa666 said:
Can you imagine not existing? I can’t.
How do you even imagine it? Eternal darkness? There will not be even darkness, there will not be you to experience this darkness. You don’t exist.
You can’t imagine this, because it still takes you to imagine it.
This has always been a conundrum I've thought about too.
I think this notion is what the God Saurashtra deals with. The 'closer' part, which is the same as verse 20 above hinting the Self that has not yet been. The unknowable etheric self. The uncreated Soul.
Nyan said:
Ya just ask Father Satan not to reincarnate you.
People should have the right to have their souls preserved instead of having to reincarnate.
That's basically a copout though, and not relevant to the Truth. We're supposed to exist. You can only work on your soul if you have a body which is the original reason for what were called possessions. Souls being invoked use the material body of the practitioner to empower themselves. Its even given that many souls on the Astral would do anything to reincarnate. The only reason Satan keeps people there is for Time reasons as in the best point and instance for someone to be born into the physical world, not preserving them forever like a mummy.
It doesn't work on the modern whims of your average person here. Things regarding the astral go in cycles like your washing machine, if your washing machine is stuck your clothes aren't gonna get washed and you'll feel dirty wearing them. This is similar with people remaining in the astral for no reason, but an excuse of "rights" i.e whims and lazinesses.
Residing without a body is basically living in an astral council flat on The God's money and effort. Parasitic. We have bodies so we don't degrade to that level, the Gods only support the souls who aren't open and empowered enough to reside out of their own effort and one will discover then that it is better to have a body than to not.
Time is used properly on the Gods level, not whimsically and "in a faultless fantasy but really in a dirty council flat" world.
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