Regarding the pain and sufferings of life

[phi3.14infinity]

I feel it very much compelled to write this thread ..Many people in this world believe that suffering is crucial to learn certain things in life ..Many people also believe diamonds and gold are made only out of extreme pressure ...Many people say what does not kill you can only make you stronger ..People also believe without suffering ,u learn nothing ...

Well I have a different stand and this may definitely look weird and something indifferent .But I believe with all my heart suffering and pain are the two things which do not teach you anything other than giving you setbacks,pain,misery ,misfortune and all the negative things added to it

Many of the people who think that with suffering comes lessons .
Seriously ??Somebody who was extremely brutally harassed and abused ..What sort of lessons should such people learn ??Why should such people even learn anything when it was absolutely 0 mistake of theirs

People on this earth have met severe accidents some losing their body parts ,some even losing their own life and Most of the time it was not even their fault ..In my country many people have met horrible death when it was not even their fault ...So here for someone who have lost their own life ,what can such misery teach them at the cost of their death ??That is how weird it looks when my satanist brothers and sisters say ,with suffering comes lessons ..

someone who trusted a guy ,after marriage comes to know that this guy is a polyamorous person ,who has multiple relationships at the same time ..What was her fault when it is the fault of the evil guy who acted good and so amiable that any human can be made gullible ???

What many people fail to completely realise is lessons and punishment are ONLY for the evil people who do evil things to others and absolutely NOT for those who never did evil to others and when such good people suffer ,we as satanists need to guide them to meditations ,runes ,yoga,affirmations etc etc As such good people suffer because of the accumulated karma from their previous life ..

Somebody who has missed many great opportunities and instead who has only suffered knows that suffering is the biggest detrimental thing in life like a cancer which can never give your lost years ...Compare this person to someone who has it all easy ,who gets all right things at the right time ..If somebody still thinks suffering is good ..It is because they do not know what exactly it is to suffer ..

They just suffered some mild pain and just give a great philosophical advice on suffering ,not even knowing what exactly is it to suffer

On the other hand real suffering is when you don't even know why you are suffering ,why you have lost your valuable time in pain when other people In this world have it all easy ..

Let's take example of A .A is a person born in a very rich and an affluent family ..A has great skill in computer programming and started to program since the age of 5-6 ( I know certain people who have done it ),By the age of 15 ,A becomes a genius and by the age of 21 .A starts his own company ,And by the age of 31,A is already a millionaire and is leading a great life ..Compare this with another person called B ..B is born in a normal family ..Parents being very abusive .Society not being that supportive .B is born in a country where right education is not emphasised and hence B despite of having talents in computers still could not hone his skil till age 18 ..Only at age 19,B discovers his skill and by 22 he gets a good job in a software company ...B is bored with routine office and hence after 8-9 years of his life starts his own company ..By age 41 ,B reaches millionaire status ..Both A and B are born in the same year but In a different country ..By the time B reaches millionaire status ,A is far ahead of B ..It took B 19 years to find out his actual skill which took A only 4 years to find out what he is good at ..A leads B by nearly 15 years and Since A has the headstart A leads B by many years ..

B suffered so much in his life ,which A got it so very easily ..Do you see the unfairness of life ??If with these two analogies people still think suffering is good ,,Then they still have failed to understand that no body needs to suffer if they are born at right place at right time with right things handled to them ...

It is suffering and pain of life which made B stand so many years even a decade or two behind A ...Suffering and pain made B to not come equivalent to A ..Imagine if B also was born exactly like A at the right place and the right area ,B and A both would have been equal ..

Many real musicians who play real music do not get the fame and recognition which they rightfully deserve ..On the other hand useless pop artists make millions for their trash songs ..That is the unfairness of life ..

And when someone who knows that they deserve a way better life and yet have not got it ,shows they have negative karma accumulated in their chart which is exactly what they need to remove from their natal chart which is keeping them back ,which is causing all sort of misfortunate things in life which includes all unwanted suffering in life and if instead of emphasising karmic removal from their natal chart and soul ,If we just do vain compliments that suffering was for good ,then it means we are underming suffering ,then it means we have never understood that true Satanism is all about winning fate and superseding all misfortunate events in life ..

We are not born on this earth to become so called strong out of pain and unwanted misfortunes that we do not even need in the first place ..We are born here to have our life easy like that of person A who has all things easy in life and all things in his favour who got all good things in his life from good parents to right peers to even right spouse ...

Our natal chart is the reflection of our soul and all worst karma needs to be eradicated from the natal chart with malefic planets especially Saturn being the main evil behind all wrong things in life ..One needs to follow joy of Satan website main page and rigorously work out spiritually as well as physically to have an easy life like A and NOT that of a person like B or C ..This world does not take inspiration from B or C .This world knows A like people who have set bench mark and milestone in their life ...

Glorifying suffering which makes you loose all your precious time,opportunities,giving all sort of unwanted pain and sufferings ..Giving all sort of bad people in your life who spoiled your life ,inviting diseases,accidents and all these mishaps in your life do NOT in any way make your life grow ..These things are totally non related to your life goals and yet some people telling ,you become strong through these unwanted things is nothing but sheer ignorance not knowing the value of life

What suffering can give you ??
1) Pain

2) loss

3) Denial of greatest opportunities in your life and goals

4) Inviting wrong people in your life with no fault of yours

5) All sort of accidents and disease

Are these in any way going to help you with your life goals and your time and skill ???

Absolutely NOT!!They hinder all good things in your life and give you a huge setbacks in life ....

Why do they occur to you ??

Because of negative karma in your natal chart ..

So what should I do ??

Work out spiritually doing meditation ,AOP,Yoga etc etc

Will a person like A would have ever gone through all the above points in life ??

Absolutely NOT!!..He would never have gone through such ruckus which B or C or D had gone through ...Because A had it all easy ,he is the winner in life and such people are the one who we see aa achievers ..if A had gone through such mishaps ,A would never had been a millionaire by age 30 ...

So one needs to stop normalising suffering and no body needs to waste their precious time in unwanted pain which has nothing to do with their life progress...No body needs to learn so called character development and strength from all unwanted mishaps and start working out spiritually and physically with their life goals and spiritual goals to NEVER suffer ..We are not born to become strong because of unwanted mishaps ..We are born to achieve things in life and suffering will only put a huge set back to all the greatest things of life ..

 

[Henu the Great]

This playing of a victim is getting old.

 

[Aquarius]

You are a naive person. And this mindset of yours will bring you nowhere in life.

 

[Havoc]

Person A would absolutely have it better then person B, sometimes life is chaotic and unfair.

Maybe person A had to live a hard in his past full of hard work with little success so he chose that astrology in his next life/earned it? I think when we reincarnate we chose a birth time favorable to the energy’s we want and the negative aspects are consequences we are willing to take on to get what we want, often times the things in life we think are most important are the missing pieces and we don’t see what is good good.

Another possibility I’d like you to consider, person A is born rich and becomes a totally lazy drug addict the enters into toxic relationships with people who just want to exploit them, they die at 40 penniless choking on their own vomit, person B is poor but because nothing is handed to them works hard and becomes a successful millionaire.

I know if I had a happy and fun life full of friends and activities, a good career I may have never found Satanism or spend all this time meditating and thinking about the nature of life, I know that having seen negative things and experienced poverty I appreciate things more.

Working hard and sacrificing things may be necessary to get better outcomes even if the suffering going into getting things isn’t positive to should at least be something you accept and are comfortable with while we are here in a fallen world.

Suffering forces us to stop and think looking for answers or solutions, it doesn’t add anything of value to our lives you are right about that much.

Martyrdom is not something to glorify though

 

[DarkAries]

This is such a weak mindset. The "wich doesnt kill you makes you stronger" means that the strong one endure the difficulities of life, and become even better, and the weak ones perishes.

 

[DarkAries]

Wishing a state where you never suffer is like wishing for not even existing, or the xian "heaven".

 

[Epiphany]

Someone asks the disabled war veteran, who is laughing, smiling and enjoying life: "How can you be so happy when you've lost both of your legs?"

The veteran replied: "How can you be sad when you still have both of yours?"

Life teaches lessons, often in the form of perspective. A closed mind that cannot see past its own nose will never listen and never learn. If one cannot make lemons into lemonade then one will live a very sour and bitter life indeed.

 

[phi3.14infinity]

This playing of a victim is getting old.

I have not played victim ..I am writing this so that people stop being a victim to suffering and do real spiritual work to avoid it at all cost ..This is an article and not not a letter of complaint

 

[phi3.14infinity]

You are a naive person. And this mindset of yours will bring you nowhere in life.

This post is not a post of complaint ..This post is so that no body suffers and totally do right spiritual things so that we avoid all wrong things...Is it because you think suffering is good ??absolutely not ...!!!A person who is having all good in life leads others in many ways ...Is my post really harsh just because we think it is good to suffer ....I have written the very harsh facts of life so that people sublimate all bad aspects in their natal chart and lead a life free of suffering ..

 

[Alexandros Iowno [JG]]

There is a misunderstanding in the middle here. One part is that belief here plays only a positive impact when it is adjusted to the reality. Reality is based on creation and destruction and in dual nature this is seen in suffering as well.

For you to have been born, creation and suffering has happened. By copulation, by continuous growth and birth. Birthing you was an extremely suffering event for your mother, and all mothers as much as it was a beautiful experience. This was physical, emotional- after suffering, the dual nature of existence kicked in again, and blessed the mother with happiness to hold you and so on. Suffering, by design, was present so that a new life can be born. Destruction to allow creation happens often as well, but the idealization of this is what could bring delusion here sometimes.

Sacrifice is needed and present in life. In the above example, your mother sacrificed her nutrition for you in the womb, cells died so others can be born. Then in life, financial investment, emotional, mental, spiritual and physical effort has been given.

All of the above is undergoing process of suffering for resolve, or better said, for life to be allowed to survive and prosper.

This is the base nature of life, a process of becoming and changing towards better, more and expanded. Seeking the positive, the good. But this cannot be without a defined obstacle, as we live in the material world, by design, a dual nature happens.

No matter your opinion, belief, perceiving of this, suffering is and will exist as without it life cannot be defined onto a continuous growth towards infinity. So if we can use this to define and promote the positive in our life, how can we do that? What is the meaning of this? That is exactly the question and the pursuit of realizing what you are to do here. You are to deal with this.

You having the guts to assume responsibility over your life, and as a hero maybe someday of others lives, like a father or mother, a whole community, means to asses and address your problems and suffering, ease this, fix this. Then of others suffering and problems, ease this, fix this. Then of our civilizations problems, a part of it, ease it, fix it. Ten more like you, then we have a great community, 1000 more like you we are building a city.

Naturally this proposes existential questions, and all relates to some virtues that can unlock reality to unimaginable lengths.
You have to address the fears of existence with strategy, logic and good intentions. You have to avoid being weak in face of suffering, indeed.

All of the above is for one thing, and all the idealization may be necessary in face of life, as life, yes, indeed can be merciless.

The example of the mother I gave you, is because it relates to a spiritual concept of toughness. You have to become though, brave and a protector as much as protected in life. This won't happen by living without the element of understanding that in life there is DANGER, SUFFERING, DEATH, DESTRUCTION and then trying to logically and with purpose and resolve DEFY THEM.

Misfortune happens, suffering happens and then even some tragedy. Sometimes it can seem uncontrollably brutal. LIFE IS NOT ABOUT WISHING AND NOT DOING, DESERVING (FOR NOTHING), NOT FOR COWARDS, NIHILISTS, DEFEATISTS, LOSERS (YES SORRY LOSERS EXISTS INDISCRIMINATELY, NOT MY DECISION)

Life is about BECOMING, BRAVERY, FIGTHING, WINNING, HARMONY, RESOLVE AND LIGHT.

Desire in itself is a feeling of pain in the body, even if perceived as a desire in itself. To desire is to suffer, but then to belong is to become. All of this interconnectedness of life is about being a human and must not be denied by plain misunderstanding and disgust.

The cure for all of this is in your face indeed, is about "fighting" all of this, because the fight happens without your direct, indirect, partial or not permission.

There are lessons in all aspects of life, and these lessons exists by default by the nature of yourself having witnessed them.
Your consciousness is much deeper than your conscious reach of it, and judgement happens.

The fact that people die everyday, in all ways, should teach you the value of life, and even a second of it. Maybe not get in a fight and temper your anger, maybe learn to defend and protect, maybe learn to avoid things, advise. Should entice you to learn more about it, things such as astrology. The path is already being build for you and has been forever by the Gods grace.

It should trigger your instincts to conserve and preserve yourself. Here is where you need to override for the sake of life beautiful potential with bravery.

Setback are essential for the structure of reality and forging things to become permanent. It is an effect of a cause, and there is your problem, probably a multitude. It means you can do better.

Someone has been brutally attacked and harassed. Why? Do you really want to know or are you just about defeated already. Of course all of it has came about because of some things, which we should know so we do not have this happen again, to avoid, to protect.

At the end of the day, another human suffering being your excuse for not living is the most powerful trap in human history for the sensitive people as much as the greatest fuel of victory and help one can have. Here is the choice of each human.

You are not them and they are not you, at the same time, each of us have choices and ways to manage life. Some fail yes, sometimes out of their hands, rarely. You have to adapt and address regardless.

Lessons and punishment unfortunately work less for evil people, as those kind of people are comfortable being evil, and the baseline nature is of destruction or completely defunct. The resonance in existence bought them the same.

About the musicians who do not get praise or something. The fault here is on them having not understood that commercial fame, financial help and so on are not about the quality or other factors they perceive they deserve for. LIFE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. The largeness of musicians being successful is so enormous, no one has an excuse to not push their music and learn business and other marketable ways. Also, anyone can learn to do some music and so on, not all people are special, very few are. In 8 billon people, a musician can find their 500 people to resonate and grow their music to and drive a community and lifelong imprint in the whole world.

Lastly, LIFE IS NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK YOU DESERVE. YOU DESERVE NOTHING YOU CANNOT ACCOMPLISH, CREATE, HOLD, SUSTAIN.

A prisoner after having murdered a family thinks he deserves freedom, society and humans said NO. A junkie thinks it deserves the greatest high, life says NO: DEATH. A musician thinks he deserves world fame, reality thinks NO: NO ONE LISTENS. A guy thinks he deserves to fly, gravity: DEATH. You think you deserve to not suffer, life checked where you are in it, how are you doing, hmm: NO, here's the cure, resolve this: SUFFERING.

 

[Blitzkreig [JG]]

I feel it very much compelled to write this thread ..Many people in this world believe that suffering is crucial to learn certain things in life ..Many people also believe diamonds and gold are made only out of extreme pressure ...Many people say what does not kill you can only make you stronger ..People also believe without suffering ,u learn nothing ...

Well I have a different stand and this may definitely look weird and something indifferent .But I believe with all my heart suffering and pain are the two things which do not teach you anything other than giving you setbacks,pain,misery ,misfortune and all the negative things added to it

Many of the people who think that with suffering comes lessons .
Seriously ??Somebody who was extremely brutally harassed and abused ..What sort of lessons should such people learn ??Why should such people even learn anything when it was absolutely 0 mistake of theirs

People on this earth have met severe accidents some losing their body parts ,some even losing their own life and Most of the time it was not even their fault ..In my country many people have met horrible death when it was not even their fault ...So here for someone who have lost their own life ,what can such misery teach them at the cost of their death ??That is how weird it looks when my satanist brothers and sisters say ,with suffering comes lessons ..

someone who trusted a guy ,after marriage comes to know that this guy is a polyamorous person ,who has multiple relationships at the same time ..What was her fault when it is the fault of the evil guy who acted good and so amiable that any human can be made gullible ???

What many people fail to completely realise is lessons and punishment are ONLY for the evil people who do evil things to others and absolutely NOT for those who never did evil to others and when such good people suffer ,we as satanists need to guide them to meditations ,runes ,yoga,affirmations etc etc As such good people suffer because of the accumulated karma from their previous life ..

Somebody who has missed many great opportunities and instead who has only suffered knows that suffering is the biggest detrimental thing in life like a cancer which can never give your lost years ...Compare this person to someone who has it all easy ,who gets all right things at the right time ..If somebody still thinks suffering is good ..It is because they do not know what exactly it is to suffer ..

They just suffered some mild pain and just give a great philosophical advice on suffering ,not even knowing what exactly is it to suffer

On the other hand real suffering is when you don't even know why you are suffering ,why you have lost your valuable time in pain when other people In this world have it all easy ..

Let's take example of A .A is a person born in a very rich and an affluent family ..A has great skill in computer programming and started to program since the age of 5-6 ( I know certain people who have done it ),By the age of 15 ,A becomes a genius and by the age of 21 .A starts his own company ,And by the age of 31,A is already a millionaire and is leading a great life ..Compare this with another person called B ..B is born in a normal family ..Parents being very abusive .Society not being that supportive .B is born in a country where right education is not emphasised and hence B despite of having talents in computers still could not hone his skil till age 18 ..Only at age 19,B discovers his skill and by 22 he gets a good job in a software company ...B is bored with routine office and hence after 8-9 years of his life starts his own company ..By age 41 ,B reaches millionaire status ..Both A and B are born in the same year but In a different country ..By the time B reaches millionaire status ,A is far ahead of B ..It took B 19 years to find out his actual skill which took A only 4 years to find out what he is good at ..A leads B by nearly 15 years and Since A has the headstart A leads B by many years ..

B suffered so much in his life ,which A got it so very easily ..Do you see the unfairness of life ??If with these two analogies people still think suffering is good ,,Then they still have failed to understand that no body needs to suffer if they are born at right place at right time with right things handled to them ...

It is suffering and pain of life which made B stand so many years even a decade or two behind A ...Suffering and pain made B to not come equivalent to A ..Imagine if B also was born exactly like A at the right place and the right area ,B and A both would have been equal ..

Many real musicians who play real music do not get the fame and recognition which they rightfully deserve ..On the other hand useless pop artists make millions for their trash songs ..That is the unfairness of life ..

And when someone who knows that they deserve a way better life and yet have not got it ,shows they have negative karma accumulated in their chart which is exactly what they need to remove from their natal chart which is keeping them back ,which is causing all sort of misfortunate things in life which includes all unwanted suffering in life and if instead of emphasising karmic removal from their natal chart and soul ,If we just do vain compliments that suffering was for good ,then it means we are underming suffering ,then it means we have never understood that true Satanism is all about winning fate and superseding all misfortunate events in life ..

We are not born on this earth to become so called strong out of pain and unwanted misfortunes that we do not even need in the first place ..We are born here to have our life easy like that of person A who has all things easy in life and all things in his favour who got all good things in his life from good parents to right peers to even right spouse ...

Our natal chart is the reflection of our soul and all worst karma needs to be eradicated from the natal chart with malefic planets especially Saturn being the main evil behind all wrong things in life ..One needs to follow joy of Satan website main page and rigorously work out spiritually as well as physically to have an easy life like A and NOT that of a person like B or C ..This world does not take inspiration from B or C .This world knows A like people who have set bench mark and milestone in their life ...

Glorifying suffering which makes you loose all your precious time,opportunities,giving all sort of unwanted pain and sufferings ..Giving all sort of bad people in your life who spoiled your life ,inviting diseases,accidents and all these mishaps in your life do NOT in any way make your life grow ..These things are totally non related to your life goals and yet some people telling ,you become strong through these unwanted things is nothing but sheer ignorance not knowing the value of life

What suffering can give you ??
1) Pain

2) loss

3) Denial of greatest opportunities in your life and goals

4) Inviting wrong people in your life with no fault of yours

5) All sort of accidents and disease

Are these in any way going to help you with your life goals and your time and skill ???

Absolutely NOT!!They hinder all good things in your life and give you a huge setbacks in life ....

Why do they occur to you ??

Because of negative karma in your natal chart ..

So what should I do ??

Work out spiritually doing meditation ,AOP,Yoga etc etc

Will a person like A would have ever gone through all the above points in life ??

Absolutely NOT!!..He would never have gone through such ruckus which B or C or D had gone through ...Because A had it all easy ,he is the winner in life and such people are the one who we see aa achievers ..if A had gone through such mishaps ,A would never had been a millionaire by age 30 ...

So one needs to stop normalising suffering and no body needs to waste their precious time in unwanted pain which has nothing to do with their life progress...No body needs to learn so called character development and strength from all unwanted mishaps and start working out spiritually and physically with their life goals and spiritual goals to NEVER suffer ..We are not born to become strong because of unwanted mishaps ..We are born to achieve things in life and suffering will only put a huge set back to all the greatest things of life ..

There is a big misunderstanding here, often with people getting confused about various words and their definitions. Suffering is associated with Saturn, but that does not mean suffering is something we strive for. It is just the nature of Saturn that its lessons are associated with stress, but that is not a strict rule.

This is why I don't use the term "suffering" when talking about Saturn, but rather use terms like contraction, limitation, or stress. In reality, Saturn helps us avoid stress, but to do so it must also demonstrate this for us.

Instead of looking at this from a position of suffering or no suffering, please look at the functions of each planet and how these are all essential to life. Jupiter brings blessings and expansions, but it is hard to stabilize this. In this case, Saturn is required to make use of Jupiter. Likewise, a life without Jupiter and only Saturn is miserable, as you have pointed out.

Saturn is not evil, it is neutral. It is how we interact with all energies in our environment that creates either success or failure, suffering or happiness, etc. Even Jupiter can lead to suffering in the case where it makes someone reckless.

The enemy abuses our relationship with Saturn, whereas we work with Saturn to grow.

 

[phi3.14infinity]

Person A would absolutely have it better then person B, sometimes life is chaotic and unfair.

Maybe person A had to live a hard in his past full of hard work with little success so he chose that astrology in his next life/earned it? I think when we reincarnate we chose a birth time favorable to the energy’s we want and the negative aspects are consequences we are willing to take on to get what we want, often times the things in life we think are most important are the missing pieces and we don’t see what is good good.

Another possibility I’d like you to consider, person A is born rich and becomes a totally lazy drug addict the enters into toxic relationships with people who just want to exploit them, they die at 40 penniless choking on their own vomit, person B is poor but because nothing is handed to them works hard and becomes a successful millionaire.

I know if I had a happy and fun life full of friends and activities, a good career I may have never found Satanism or spend all this time meditating and thinking about the nature of life, I know that having seen negative things and experienced poverty I appreciate things more.

Working hard and sacrificing things may be necessary to get better outcomes even if the suffering going into getting things isn’t positive to should at least be something you accept and are comfortable with while we are here in a fallen world.

Suffering forces us to stop and think looking for answers or solutions, it doesn’t add anything of value to our lives you are right about that much.

Martyrdom is not something to glorify though

Brother ,,I am not talking of those rich spoiled brats who despite of having all good things wasted their precious life and time and rot their life ..I do not even consider such people as A .I consider those people even lesser than Z .I am talking of the real A ,who have good things in life and who have utilised all good things in life and who had got it all easy ..

You are right .A's like people would have had a very hard life in past and would have worked very hard to get it all easy ,but I have not taken that ..What I am saying is regardless of your past life ,,If your natal chart is extremely bad ,one needs to rigorously work hard and sublimate all bad events in their life ..

A person who has been extremely abused in many ways ,who had met a very big accident ,who had been denied many good things in life is not going to become stronger ... People who think suffering is good have no clue of the actual suffering ..We are to supercede it at all costs and have it like A

 

[phi3.14infinity]

There is a big misunderstanding here, often with people getting confused about various words and their definitions. Suffering is associated with Saturn, but that does not mean suffering is something we strive for. It is just the nature of Saturn that its lessons are associated with stress, but that is not a strict rule.

This is why I don't use the term "suffering" when talking about Saturn, but rather use terms like contraction, limitation, or stress. In reality, Saturn helps us avoid stress, but to do so it must also demonstrate this for us.

Instead of looking at this from a position of suffering or no suffering, please look at the functions of each planet and how these are all essential to life. Jupiter brings blessings and expansions, but it is hard to stabilize this. In this case, Saturn is required to make use of Jupiter. Likewise, a life without Jupiter and only Saturn is miserable, as you have pointed out.

Saturn is not evil, it is neutral. It is how we interact with all energies in our environment that creates either success or failure, suffering or happiness, etc. Even Jupiter can lead to suffering in the case where it makes someone reckless.

The enemy abuses our relationship with Saturn, whereas we work with Saturn to grow.

Could you please tell me the difference between how enemy abuses Saturn and how we as satanist get saturnian lessons ??

 

[ApolloAbove [JG]]

I want to help you, but even after the numerous replies you have been given trying to make you understand the truth and the way Saturn works, you are almost refusing to understand. I fear that if I spend time writing out another comment, you will ignore it entirely and give me another analogy.

I do hope you re-read everything that has been posted very carefully, and with an open mind. How could all of these veteran members be telling you the same thing repeatedly, and yet somehow, they are all wrong?

 

[phi3.14infinity]

I want to help you, but even after the numerous replies you have been given trying to make you understand the truth and the way Saturn works, you are almost refusing to understand. I fear that if I spend time writing out another comment, you will ignore it entirely and give me another analogy.

I do hope you re-read everything that has been posted very carefully, and with an open mind. How could all of these veteran members be telling you the same thing repeatedly, and yet somehow, they are all wrong?

Please explain me what good can come out of a abuse??if suffering is good, nobody will be finding joy of Satan and we all will be complacent with suffering and what life throws at you

 

[phi3.14infinity]

Someone asks the disabled war veteran, who is laughing, smiling and enjoying life: "How can you be so happy when you've lost both of your legs?"

The veteran replied: "How can you be sad when you still have both of yours?"

Life teaches lessons, often in the form of perspective. A closed mind that cannot see past its own nose will never listen and never learn. If one cannot make lemons into lemonade then one will live a very sour and bitter life indeed.

Brother the major point is to never get a lemon to make a lemonade ..Life must always be like a progressive graph and not facing any setbacks like a vehicle stuck in traffic jam where you loose out all important things in life

 

[Crystal Lake]

In my personal experience, pain forces people to move forward, while pleasure lures people to stagnation.

 

[Havoc]

Brother ,,I am not talking of those rich spoiled brats who despite of having all good things wasted their precious life and time and rot their life ..I do not even consider such people as A .I consider those people even lesser than Z .I am talking of the real A ,who have good things in life and who have utilised all good things in life and who had got it all easy ..

You are right .A's like people would have had a very hard life in past and would have worked very hard to get it all easy ,but I have not taken that ..What I am saying is regardless of your past life ,,If your natal chart is extremely bad ,one needs to rigorously work hard and sublimate all bad events in their life ..

A person who has been extremely abused in many ways ,who had met a very big accident ,who had been denied many good things in life is not going to become stronger ... People who think suffering is good have no clue of the actual suffering ..We are to supercede it at all costs and have it like A

The effort it takes to supersede the suffering takes willpower, if you accept suffering is a reality of life and are willing to work to get rid of it that’s Satanic.

Reality is chaotic and there isn’t a grater meaning to a lot of things, we are just here and have to make the best of it.

But I think some things do teach you lessons and some things are just terrible without any benefit or things you can learn from it. I don’t think every moment in our lives is planned and has a purpose.

I will point out one thing I noticed you said (and I see a lot of people make this mistake) dying isn’t actually bad or suffering, you just float around in the afterlife and then get a new fresh start.

 

[Umun]

Could you please tell me the difference between how enemy abuses Saturn and how we as satanist get saturnian lessons ??

I will refrain from commenting on the original post because enough has been said but this is actually a good question. The second part has been elaborated on many times here though much less is written on the first one.

Perhaps a short summary from some of the more advanced brothers and sisters that are eloquent enough to explain this in not so many words would be beneficial for a lot of people here.

Pain is a great motivator, that much we all know. It has other dimensions to it that can be used to learn or convey a message.

For example: I'm experiencing extreme excruciating pain from a medical condition that modern medicine doesn't understand very well such as cluster headaches. It has lasted for many years in which I've found ways of alleviateing the pain, dealing with it and have grown resistant to pain that has proven useful in many situations in life. Also, in the early years of living with this, I was an angry person, a pain in the arse for those around me and a generally unpleasant man. Having realized this coupled with the strong urge to become a better man is a big part of what made my growth possible. In addition to all this after many years of education, research, experimentation and hard work, I was able to explain why this happens in the first place and formulate a treatment that helps a lot of people deal with cluster headaches.

In contrast to the above example, another person with the same condition and in a similar situation in life has gotten addicted to painkillers, destroyed every relationship he had with people and ended up commiting suicide which is not uncommon in patients with this diagnosis.

There are many factors at play here but for the sake of explaining a point it can be simplified like this. One has learned valuable lessons and the other hasn't.

SWP

 

[Olympios666]

I will say a few things about how I see the issue from my own personal experience. If we see pain like any other emotion for what it really is, we will see that it is nothing but pure neutral energy, neither good nor bad. Life will bring us enough obstacles and difficulties in order to grow. The issue when going through a difficulty is how to manage it. Are you going to sit and cry all your life and get depressed or are you going to do everything you can to face the problem and overcome it so that you can grow and move forward. In the first case, which is often the case with Christians who are prone to negative teachings, the obstacle will be their condemnation, because they identify with it and cry for the misfortune that fate has brought them for a lifetime, thus creating the various psychological traumas. In the second case this person will accept the difficulty he is going through but at the same time he will not remain in a passive attitude, but will give everything he has, will fight, will look at what mistakes he made and will come out in the end strengthened and with a more expanded consciousness. It is in the midst of difficulties that the greatest achievements of humanity have been realized. From this point of view, every difficulty, every obstacle and every physical pain should not be a mental pain but only an obstacle to be overcome in order to move forward.

 

[phi3.14infinity]

I will say a few things about how I see the issue from my own personal experience. If we see pain like any other emotion for what it really is, we will see that it is nothing but pure neutral energy, neither good nor bad. Life will bring us enough obstacles and difficulties in order to grow. The issue when going through a difficulty is how to manage it. Are you going to sit and cry all your life and get depressed or are you going to do everything you can to face the problem and overcome it so that you can grow and move forward. In the first case, which is often the case with Christians who are prone to negative teachings, the obstacle will be their condemnation, because they identify with it and cry for the misfortune that fate has brought them for a lifetime, thus creating the various psychological traumas. In the second case this person will accept the difficulty he is going through but at the same time he will not remain in a passive attitude, but will give everything he has, will fight, will look at what mistakes he made and will come out in the end strengthened and with a more expanded consciousness. It is in the midst of difficulties that the greatest achievements of humanity have been realized. From this point of view, every difficulty, every obstacle and every physical pain should not be a mental pain but only an obstacle to be overcome in order to move forward.

The point of this post is NOT to whine or complain that one has pain and sufferings in life and continue being complacent or accepting it .

The point of this post is to make people understand it is NOT good to normalise pain and sufferings as both of them do you absolutely zero good ..Claiming pain and sufferings as something good and virtuous is the teaching of Christianity which many of us have overlooked ..One needs to learn their natal chart and see if there is any bad event in future and take all spiritual and physical steps necessary to avoid it from even manifesting in the first place ..

The point of moving on after suffering itself is a useless thing when you do not even have to suffer and lose all your precious time and your peace of mind in the first place ..It is a sheer fallacy that you people thing suffering makes you stronger ..It never can ..A good soul with good karma never goes through painful suffering which most of us have gone through ..

Ask somebody who have been physically,sexually,emotionally abused .Ask them what was it to suffer when it was not even their mistake in the first place ..People who go through these things in life would NEVER claim that they become strong after a severe rape or molestation .. All these things leave heavy psychological and emotional scars in life which gets carried on to your next life attracting the same kind of dejavu events in their life ..

Ask someone who met a very severe accident and what is it like to lose their legs or any other body parts when it was not even their mistake in the first place ..

You people who claim that you became strong after suffering is because you NEVER went through real sufferings in life .Just a mild couple of weeks bad time and then you claim that you emerged victorious ..

You people claim Saturn is the biggest teacher ..Nobody learns anything after being severly raped or going through terrible accident or losing their very loved ones or suffering some fatal disease ..Saturn has nothing good besides giving you lifespan and discipline (if only Saturn is well placed in your chart ) ..Saturn gives you biggest lesson via a severe rape or severe accident or severe disease is the most nonsensical thing I have heard ..

Nobody needs to learn life lessons via such catastrophic and brutal things ..

 

[phi3.14infinity]

I will refrain from commenting on the original post because enough has been said but this is actually a good question. The second part has been elaborated on many times here though much less is written on the first one.

Perhaps a short summary from some of the more advanced brothers and sisters that are eloquent enough to explain this in not so many words would be beneficial for a lot of people here.

Pain is a great motivator, that much we all know. It has other dimensions to it that can be used to learn or convey a message.

For example: I'm experiencing extreme excruciating pain from a medical condition that modern medicine doesn't understand very well such as cluster headaches. It has lasted for many years in which I've found ways of alleviateing the pain, dealing with it and have grown resistant to pain that has proven useful in many situations in life. Also, in the early years of living with this, I was an angry person, a pain in the arse for those around me and a generally unpleasant man. Having realized this coupled with the strong urge to become a better man is a big part of what made my growth possible. In addition to all this after many years of education, research, experimentation and hard work, I was able to explain why this happens in the first place and formulate a treatment that helps a lot of people deal with cluster headaches.

In contrast to the above example, another person with the same condition and in a similar situation in life has gotten addicted to painkillers, destroyed every relationship he had with people and ended up commiting suicide which is not uncommon in patients with this diagnosis.

There are many factors at play here but for the sake of explaining a point it can be simplified like this. One has learned valuable lessons and the other hasn't.

SWP

Pain from being raped or pain from losing your body parts after a severe accident or pain from fatal diseases like cancer really motivates you ??Well it can never motivate a sane person ..When you have lost life or your body parts after such excruciating pain ,what sort of work you can ever do ??This is what happens when we are heavily infested and pestered with Christianity and it's fatal teachings

 

[phi3.14infinity]

There is a misunderstanding in the middle here. One part is that belief here plays only a positive impact when it is adjusted to the reality. Reality is based on creation and destruction and in dual nature this is seen in suffering as well.

For you to have been born, creation and suffering has happened. By copulation, by continuous growth and birth. Birthing you was an extremely suffering event for your mother, and all mothers as much as it was a beautiful experience. This was physical, emotional- after suffering, the dual nature of existence kicked in again, and blessed the mother with happiness to hold you and so on. Suffering, by design, was present so that a new life can be born. Destruction to allow creation happens often as well, but the idealization of this is what could bring delusion here sometimes.

Sacrifice is needed and present in life. In the above example, your mother sacrificed her nutrition for you in the womb, cells died so others can be born. Then in life, financial investment, emotional, mental, spiritual and physical effort has been given.

All of the above is undergoing process of suffering for resolve, or better said, for life to be allowed to survive and prosper.

This is the base nature of life, a process of becoming and changing towards better, more and expanded. Seeking the positive, the good. But this cannot be without a defined obstacle, as we live in the material world, by design, a dual nature happens.

No matter your opinion, belief, perceiving of this, suffering is and will exist as without it life cannot be defined onto a continuous growth towards infinity. So if we can use this to define and promote the positive in our life, how can we do that? What is the meaning of this? That is exactly the question and the pursuit of realizing what you are to do here. You are to deal with this.

You having the guts to assume responsibility over your life, and as a hero maybe someday of others lives, like a father or mother, a whole community, means to asses and address your problems and suffering, ease this, fix this. Then of others suffering and problems, ease this, fix this. Then of our civilizations problems, a part of it, ease it, fix it. Ten more like you, then we have a great community, 1000 more like you we are building a city.

Naturally this proposes existential questions, and all relates to some virtues that can unlock reality to unimaginable lengths.
You have to address the fears of existence with strategy, logic and good intentions. You have to avoid being weak in face of suffering, indeed.

All of the above is for one thing, and all the idealization may be necessary in face of life, as life, yes, indeed can be merciless.

The example of the mother I gave you, is because it relates to a spiritual concept of toughness. You have to become though, brave and a protector as much as protected in life. This won't happen by living without the element of understanding that in life there is DANGER, SUFFERING, DEATH, DESTRUCTION and then trying to logically and with purpose and resolve DEFY THEM.

Misfortune happens, suffering happens and then even some tragedy. Sometimes it can seem uncontrollably brutal. LIFE IS NOT ABOUT WISHING AND NOT DOING, DESERVING (FOR NOTHING), NOT FOR COWARDS, NIHILISTS, DEFEATISTS, LOSERS (YES SORRY LOSERS EXISTS INDISCRIMINATELY, NOT MY DECISION)

Life is about BECOMING, BRAVERY, FIGTHING, WINNING, HARMONY, RESOLVE AND LIGHT.

Desire in itself is a feeling of pain in the body, even if perceived as a desire in itself. To desire is to suffer, but then to belong is to become. All of this interconnectedness of life is about being a human and must not be denied by plain misunderstanding and disgust.

The cure for all of this is in your face indeed, is about "fighting" all of this, because the fight happens without your direct, indirect, partial or not permission.

There are lessons in all aspects of life, and these lessons exists by default by the nature of yourself having witnessed them.
Your consciousness is much deeper than your conscious reach of it, and judgement happens.

The fact that people die everyday, in all ways, should teach you the value of life, and even a second of it. Maybe not get in a fight and temper your anger, maybe learn to defend and protect, maybe learn to avoid things, advise. Should entice you to learn more about it, things such as astrology. The path is already being build for you and has been forever by the Gods grace.

It should trigger your instincts to conserve and preserve yourself. Here is where you need to override for the sake of life beautiful potential with bravery.

Setback are essential for the structure of reality and forging things to become permanent. It is an effect of a cause, and there is your problem, probably a multitude. It means you can do better.

Someone has been brutally attacked and harassed. Why? Do you really want to know or are you just about defeated already. Of course all of it has came about because of some things, which we should know so we do not have this happen again, to avoid, to protect.

At the end of the day, another human suffering being your excuse for not living is the most powerful trap in human history for the sensitive people as much as the greatest fuel of victory and help one can have. Here is the choice of each human.

You are not them and they are not you, at the same time, each of us have choices and ways to manage life. Some fail yes, sometimes out of their hands, rarely. You have to adapt and address regardless.

Lessons and punishment unfortunately work less for evil people, as those kind of people are comfortable being evil, and the baseline nature is of destruction or completely defunct. The resonance in existence bought them the same.

About the musicians who do not get praise or something. The fault here is on them having not understood that commercial fame, financial help and so on are not about the quality or other factors they perceive they deserve for. LIFE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. The largeness of musicians being successful is so enormous, no one has an excuse to not push their music and learn business and other marketable ways. Also, anyone can learn to do some music and so on, not all people are special, very few are. In 8 billon people, a musician can find their 500 people to resonate and grow their music to and drive a community and lifelong imprint in the whole world.

Lastly, LIFE IS NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK YOU DESERVE. YOU DESERVE NOTHING YOU CANNOT ACCOMPLISH, CREATE, HOLD, SUSTAIN.

A prisoner after having murdered a family thinks he deserves freedom, society and humans said NO. A junkie thinks it deserves the greatest high, life says NO: DEATH. A musician thinks he deserves world fame, reality thinks NO: NO ONE LISTENS. A guy thinks he deserves to fly, gravity: DEATH. You think you deserve to not suffer, life checked where you are in it, how are you doing, hmm: NO, here's the cure, resolve this: SUFFERING.

Many of your points here are harsh reality of life Which is exactly what I have said in a harsh way which you have said in a casual polite way ..Does not make much difference...You talk about mother sufferings to give birth which is again a logical fallacy ..Every living thing goes through "this" which u claim as suffering to give another life ,And this is NOT what you even call suffering in the very first place as birthing is something which all female species do is a normal biological phenomenon which should NOT even be counted as suffering in the first place...When all living female species goes through this for sometime ,it is NOT even suffering and pain ..What every living being does is NOT even what I am talking of

By this false logic even pooping is a suffering thing ,which every living things do because that is the biological aspect of life ..These kind of things are not what even is called as suffering ..

When I claim suffering it means when a specific human goes through things which others did not even go through ..It can be anything like rape,abuse ,severe accidents,born to abusive parents ,having abusive wife or husband ,having enemies who hatch severe conspiracy against you ..Being born in a very poor family and suffering hard to make your daily ends even meet lacking in heavy nutrition ,Having a very fatal disease ..These things are NOT NOT what a person who has a very good natal chart would even go through and the top 10 percent of this world would have NEVER gone through ..

Your problem is you think just because I have written of why one needs to avoid suffering,you assume I have self pity and I have accepted things in life ..Again a total wrong assumption..I am making it clear that one needs to avoid all sort of suffering at all times to save their life and live the most deserving life ..

Someone who writes a post on why is it necessary to stop complimenting suffering and work brutally hard to eliminate it means ,that this person has accepted defeat is a very wrong assumption..I am not responsible if you assume something which I am not which is exactly what I am talking about ..

Your point on duality is what any person having a strong negative karma goes through ..People born in this Jewish matrix goes through this duality is not some new point which something no body does not know...True satanists rise above duality and take all sort of necessary spiritual steps to avoid all this unnecessary wreckage and live the most deserving life superseding and sublimating all their karma ..

No satanists should ever have to waste their life going through suffering ..This is what ignorant souls who are trapped in this matrix who have no tools to win their fate give their warped excuses of why suffering is good ..True satanists work in all ways to conquer everything and NOT sit and think suffering is virtuous which is the toxic mentality of all Christians who think that suffering and poverty are virtuous..

True satanists who work spiritually in all ways are the only one who can take complete control of their life and true satanists in every way should take complete control and dominance over their life as this is the characteristics of all gods who are not subjected to negative karma or misfortune in life ..

It is absolutely ridiculous and amusing to even think that one grows via rape,accidents,disease and you never grow infinity via this but you carry trauma ,hangups from all this to other lifetimes and this does NOT make a soul grow in infinity but because this soul has suffered the same recurring events for many life times,the soul becomes extremely weak and dies eternally because the soul is too weak to even reincarnate..

You really think it is extremely positive to go through all these events ??You are just joking and growing out of all above events ,only happens in fantasy movies and NOT in real life ..Because movies can show any unrealistic thing,it is ok to show so in movies ..But in real life,these things do not come to make you grow but break you and give you an everlasting scars ..

You think suffering is inevitable and necessary to grow and lessons in life is exactly the toxic attitude of Christians who will exactly the same which u said ..Being a satanist claiming the above thing is necessary is only going to bring many sufferings to one in a long run ..

We are NOT Christians who read the garbage book of job and believes that if one is tested via fire,they come out as gold ..This is the exact toxic mentality which many here have ..In reality if someone burns in fire ,they die the most painful death with their corpse heavily tarnished ..

When u speak of desire itself being a pain ,this only gives me a perfect Buddhist vibe ..May be you have too much Christian or Buddhist programming which you have not detached yourself completely from ..No satanists should ever think desire itself is suffering ..


Why do you write loser,nihilists,defeatists to even me when it is people who claim suffering as something virtuous are ..Only people who glorify sufferings and think it comes to make you grow and who have a toxic mindset to never eradicate it are losers,nihilists and all the negative ists which you claim ..I am against sufferings and would work in every way to avoid it ..The problem is that nihilists I know also think suffering and all this are just illusions which is exactly what people who glorify sufferings here thinks ..

Somebody who writes a whole big post claiming why suffering is a hell hole thing and how one should work to never suffer is NOT the one who has accepted defeat ..In fact people who "accept" sufferings as something virtuous are the one who have this loser and defeatist mindset and don't even understand that by glorifying this,they are the one accepting defeat ..Amusing that you don't even know the difference between a fighter and a defeatist receptor ...

If you claim suffering should exist without which this world cannot go on ,then there was absolutely no need for you to become a satanist ..you'd better off be a Christian or a Buddhist or whatever you were before venturing in here since somebody glorifying and wanting suffering can NEVER be a true satanist ..

A true satanist should desire to have complete control over life and becoming a hero of one's own life must be the aim of all satanists ...Someone who thinks that suffering is necessary should analyse themself of their spiritual satanic stance ..

Oh common naked Pluto ,,this "face suffering and fight it " is just a poor cheap advice from cheap people in the past who said all this,thinking that they were great philosophers when they were not even one but empty people who preached empty things which is so much deeply imprinted in us ...

If one is fighting for their goals,career,business profit ,fighting to make his company grow .These things are what you call fighting where you are fighting for an end greater good goal ..These are necessary and what every human should do to grow in their life ..only these kind of fightings help you grow in your life

Whereas fighting for justice when you were raped,fighting against cancer or such disease ..Fighting with abusive people who can abuse you day and night . Fighting to get even casual things which easily comes to others is NOT NOT suffering ..Because the end result of this is a total waste of time ,all sorts of wounds ,pain ..It is megnanimously ridiculous you think fighting with all unnecessary things of your life is going to make you stronger.

This fallacy is like somebody who has many important businesses to do but is fighting with his neighbour for petty issues .The end result is losing time and losing peace which could have been used to do real productive things .

Your theory on musicians also is wrong since so called musicians who do twerking and showing their body parts are disguised as musicians and these kind of garbages are the one who earn millions ..Excellant real musicians will never be sold to such cheap abhorrent acts ..

 

[phi3.14infinity]

There is a misunderstanding in the middle here. One part is that belief here plays only a positive impact when it is adjusted to the reality. Reality is based on creation and destruction and in dual nature this is seen in suffering as well.

For you to have been born, creation and suffering has happened. By copulation, by continuous growth and birth. Birthing you was an extremely suffering event for your mother, and all mothers as much as it was a beautiful experience. This was physical, emotional- after suffering, the dual nature of existence kicked in again, and blessed the mother with happiness to hold you and so on. Suffering, by design, was present so that a new life can be born. Destruction to allow creation happens often as well, but the idealization of this is what could bring delusion here sometimes.

Sacrifice is needed and present in life. In the above example, your mother sacrificed her nutrition for you in the womb, cells died so others can be born. Then in life, financial investment, emotional, mental, spiritual and physical effort has been given.

All of the above is undergoing process of suffering for resolve, or better said, for life to be allowed to survive and prosper.

This is the base nature of life, a process of becoming and changing towards better, more and expanded. Seeking the positive, the good. But this cannot be without a defined obstacle, as we live in the material world, by design, a dual nature happens.

No matter your opinion, belief, perceiving of this, suffering is and will exist as without it life cannot be defined onto a continuous growth towards infinity. So if we can use this to define and promote the positive in our life, how can we do that? What is the meaning of this? That is exactly the question and the pursuit of realizing what you are to do here. You are to deal with this.

You having the guts to assume responsibility over your life, and as a hero maybe someday of others lives, like a father or mother, a whole community, means to asses and address your problems and suffering, ease this, fix this. Then of others suffering and problems, ease this, fix this. Then of our civilizations problems, a part of it, ease it, fix it. Ten more like you, then we have a great community, 1000 more like you we are building a city.

Naturally this proposes existential questions, and all relates to some virtues that can unlock reality to unimaginable lengths.
You have to address the fears of existence with strategy, logic and good intentions. You have to avoid being weak in face of suffering, indeed.

All of the above is for one thing, and all the idealization may be necessary in face of life, as life, yes, indeed can be merciless.

The example of the mother I gave you, is because it relates to a spiritual concept of toughness. You have to become though, brave and a protector as much as protected in life. This won't happen by living without the element of understanding that in life there is DANGER, SUFFERING, DEATH, DESTRUCTION and then trying to logically and with purpose and resolve DEFY THEM.

Misfortune happens, suffering happens and then even some tragedy. Sometimes it can seem uncontrollably brutal. LIFE IS NOT ABOUT WISHING AND NOT DOING, DESERVING (FOR NOTHING), NOT FOR COWARDS, NIHILISTS, DEFEATISTS, LOSERS (YES SORRY LOSERS EXISTS INDISCRIMINATELY, NOT MY DECISION)

Life is about BECOMING, BRAVERY, FIGTHING, WINNING, HARMONY, RESOLVE AND LIGHT.

Desire in itself is a feeling of pain in the body, even if perceived as a desire in itself. To desire is to suffer, but then to belong is to become. All of this interconnectedness of life is about being a human and must not be denied by plain misunderstanding and disgust.

The cure for all of this is in your face indeed, is about "fighting" all of this, because the fight happens without your direct, indirect, partial or not permission.

There are lessons in all aspects of life, and these lessons exists by default by the nature of yourself having witnessed them.
Your consciousness is much deeper than your conscious reach of it, and judgement happens.

The fact that people die everyday, in all ways, should teach you the value of life, and even a second of it. Maybe not get in a fight and temper your anger, maybe learn to defend and protect, maybe learn to avoid things, advise. Should entice you to learn more about it, things such as astrology. The path is already being build for you and has been forever by the Gods grace.

It should trigger your instincts to conserve and preserve yourself. Here is where you need to override for the sake of life beautiful potential with bravery.

Setback are essential for the structure of reality and forging things to become permanent. It is an effect of a cause, and there is your problem, probably a multitude. It means you can do better.

Someone has been brutally attacked and harassed. Why? Do you really want to know or are you just about defeated already. Of course all of it has came about because of some things, which we should know so we do not have this happen again, to avoid, to protect.

At the end of the day, another human suffering being your excuse for not living is the most powerful trap in human history for the sensitive people as much as the greatest fuel of victory and help one can have. Here is the choice of each human.

You are not them and they are not you, at the same time, each of us have choices and ways to manage life. Some fail yes, sometimes out of their hands, rarely. You have to adapt and address regardless.

Lessons and punishment unfortunately work less for evil people, as those kind of people are comfortable being evil, and the baseline nature is of destruction or completely defunct. The resonance in existence bought them the same.

About the musicians who do not get praise or something. The fault here is on them having not understood that commercial fame, financial help and so on are not about the quality or other factors they perceive they deserve for. LIFE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. The largeness of musicians being successful is so enormous, no one has an excuse to not push their music and learn business and other marketable ways. Also, anyone can learn to do some music and so on, not all people are special, very few are. In 8 billon people, a musician can find their 500 people to resonate and grow their music to and drive a community and lifelong imprint in the whole world.

Lastly, LIFE IS NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK YOU DESERVE. YOU DESERVE NOTHING YOU CANNOT ACCOMPLISH, CREATE, HOLD, SUSTAIN.

A prisoner after having murdered a family thinks he deserves freedom, society and humans said NO. A junkie thinks it deserves the greatest high, life says NO: DEATH. A musician thinks he deserves world fame, reality thinks NO: NO ONE LISTENS. A guy thinks he deserves to fly, gravity: DEATH. You think you deserve to not suffer, life checked where you are in it, how are you doing, hmm: NO, here's the cure, resolve this: SUFFERING.

Again you thinking that lessons can be learned only via rape,accident ,abuse is all such a sheer nonsensical thing ..It is lesson when you have worked on something related to your goal and meaningful life goals and after working super hard for real life goals ,if you have failed ,Then analysing this why you have failed and what you should and should not do the next time to succeed is what a real Lesson is ..

If you think someone needs to be raped or go through accident needs to learn a lesson,,it shows your absolute poor wisdom ..Why should a victim of anything when it was NOT even their fault be learnt a lesson that too by using such brutal things ??Anything that does not come to teach you real things related to your life is NOT A LESSON..Anything that LEAVES you with LONG LASTING SCARS,TRAUMA,PAIN is NOT lesson ...Anything that WASTES your time is NOT a lesson

It is an extremely fatal thing with you people who think good innocent people need to learn lessons via worst things of this world ..Lessons like accident and worst things should happen to evil people as a punishment and good people who never did anything bad to others don't need to learn any lesson ...Good people go through all these mishaps because of negative karma which is what they need to eradicate

Fighting for all unnecessary pain of life when that time could have been spent in fighting for real tangible goal is NOT fighting ..Setbacks and pain never make you grow ..The fact you think that it is necessary to suffer to grow is NOT what a true satanist should ever think ..Suffering and lessons for real life goals is alone necessary ..

Claiming somebody became strong after a severe rape or after a very severe accident with both of your body parts amputated is a total ridiculous thing ...This toxic attitude will never help one conquer fate

 

[Dragonheart666]

That's the one thing I can't standThat's the one thing I can't stand about Christians! They are the biggest babies when it comes to pain! Wear a spiritual Satanist doesn't sit there and pout and act like it's the end of the world! We are the kind of people that look at it as a wake-up call,. And we know that it's just pain and there's no reason why it should stop us or get in the way! And when we get up and take responsibility we use that pain as a motivation and we gradually heal when we keep ourselves going more and more

 

[phi3.14infinity]

There is a misunderstanding in the middle here. One part is that belief here plays only a positive impact when it is adjusted to the reality. Reality is based on creation and destruction and in dual nature this is seen in suffering as well.

For you to have been born, creation and suffering has happened. By copulation, by continuous growth and birth. Birthing you was an extremely suffering event for your mother, and all mothers as much as it was a beautiful experience. This was physical, emotional- after suffering, the dual nature of existence kicked in again, and blessed the mother with happiness to hold you and so on. Suffering, by design, was present so that a new life can be born. Destruction to allow creation happens often as well, but the idealization of this is what could bring delusion here sometimes.

Sacrifice is needed and present in life. In the above example, your mother sacrificed her nutrition for you in the womb, cells died so others can be born. Then in life, financial investment, emotional, mental, spiritual and physical effort has been given.

All of the above is undergoing process of suffering for resolve, or better said, for life to be allowed to survive and prosper.

This is the base nature of life, a process of becoming and changing towards better, more and expanded. Seeking the positive, the good. But this cannot be without a defined obstacle, as we live in the material world, by design, a dual nature happens.

No matter your opinion, belief, perceiving of this, suffering is and will exist as without it life cannot be defined onto a continuous growth towards infinity. So if we can use this to define and promote the positive in our life, how can we do that? What is the meaning of this? That is exactly the question and the pursuit of realizing what you are to do here. You are to deal with this.

You having the guts to assume responsibility over your life, and as a hero maybe someday of others lives, like a father or mother, a whole community, means to asses and address your problems and suffering, ease this, fix this. Then of others suffering and problems, ease this, fix this. Then of our civilizations problems, a part of it, ease it, fix it. Ten more like you, then we have a great community, 1000 more like you we are building a city.

Naturally this proposes existential questions, and all relates to some virtues that can unlock reality to unimaginable lengths.
You have to address the fears of existence with strategy, logic and good intentions. You have to avoid being weak in face of suffering, indeed.

All of the above is for one thing, and all the idealization may be necessary in face of life, as life, yes, indeed can be merciless.

The example of the mother I gave you, is because it relates to a spiritual concept of toughness. You have to become though, brave and a protector as much as protected in life. This won't happen by living without the element of understanding that in life there is DANGER, SUFFERING, DEATH, DESTRUCTION and then trying to logically and with purpose and resolve DEFY THEM.

Misfortune happens, suffering happens and then even some tragedy. Sometimes it can seem uncontrollably brutal. LIFE IS NOT ABOUT WISHING AND NOT DOING, DESERVING (FOR NOTHING), NOT FOR COWARDS, NIHILISTS, DEFEATISTS, LOSERS (YES SORRY LOSERS EXISTS INDISCRIMINATELY, NOT MY DECISION)

Life is about BECOMING, BRAVERY, FIGTHING, WINNING, HARMONY, RESOLVE AND LIGHT.

Desire in itself is a feeling of pain in the body, even if perceived as a desire in itself. To desire is to suffer, but then to belong is to become. All of this interconnectedness of life is about being a human and must not be denied by plain misunderstanding and disgust.

The cure for all of this is in your face indeed, is about "fighting" all of this, because the fight happens without your direct, indirect, partial or not permission.

There are lessons in all aspects of life, and these lessons exists by default by the nature of yourself having witnessed them.
Your consciousness is much deeper than your conscious reach of it, and judgement happens.

The fact that people die everyday, in all ways, should teach you the value of life, and even a second of it. Maybe not get in a fight and temper your anger, maybe learn to defend and protect, maybe learn to avoid things, advise. Should entice you to learn more about it, things such as astrology. The path is already being build for you and has been forever by the Gods grace.

It should trigger your instincts to conserve and preserve yourself. Here is where you need to override for the sake of life beautiful potential with bravery.

Setback are essential for the structure of reality and forging things to become permanent. It is an effect of a cause, and there is your problem, probably a multitude. It means you can do better.

Someone has been brutally attacked and harassed. Why? Do you really want to know or are you just about defeated already. Of course all of it has came about because of some things, which we should know so we do not have this happen again, to avoid, to protect.

At the end of the day, another human suffering being your excuse for not living is the most powerful trap in human history for the sensitive people as much as the greatest fuel of victory and help one can have. Here is the choice of each human.

You are not them and they are not you, at the same time, each of us have choices and ways to manage life. Some fail yes, sometimes out of their hands, rarely. You have to adapt and address regardless.

Lessons and punishment unfortunately work less for evil people, as those kind of people are comfortable being evil, and the baseline nature is of destruction or completely defunct. The resonance in existence bought them the same.

About the musicians who do not get praise or something. The fault here is on them having not understood that commercial fame, financial help and so on are not about the quality or other factors they perceive they deserve for. LIFE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. The largeness of musicians being successful is so enormous, no one has an excuse to not push their music and learn business and other marketable ways. Also, anyone can learn to do some music and so on, not all people are special, very few are. In 8 billon people, a musician can find their 500 people to resonate and grow their music to and drive a community and lifelong imprint in the whole world.

Lastly, LIFE IS NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK YOU DESERVE. YOU DESERVE NOTHING YOU CANNOT ACCOMPLISH, CREATE, HOLD, SUSTAIN.

A prisoner after having murdered a family thinks he deserves freedom, society and humans said NO. A junkie thinks it deserves the greatest high, life says NO: DEATH. A musician thinks he deserves world fame, reality thinks NO: NO ONE LISTENS. A guy thinks he deserves to fly, gravity: DEATH. You think you deserve to not suffer, life checked where you are in it, how are you doing, hmm: NO, here's the cure, resolve this: SUFFERING.

you have another nonsensical point which you made where you claimed that if one is harassed one time ,they will make sure the next time they dont get into one such situations ..Again what a huge pile of joke ..My entire posts is why one should NEVER suffer in life in any way ,,so You think in order to never suffer ,one needs to be shown a demo before hand so that they never go through the real event is itself another unwise and immatured claim..It is like the same theory ,if a child touches a frying pan ,and after touching the pan when it gets its finger burned ,this child will seldom touch it once again ..My entire post is about how a person must NEVER go through bad things in life ..If a child does NOT even think of touching the pan barehanded ever in life,, it will seldom burn its finger in the first place ..A good karmic soul will seldom go through this touching pan scenario to understand it is wrong to o touch a pan..

A negative karma filled soul goes through all worst things and loses all its precious time and does NOT get the rightfull things it actually deserves in its life and goes through all worst things of life while the other people of its age are getting all things easily and right things at the right time ..A person who is going through worst things and suffering ,is because they have huge negative karma ,that should be worked to completely remove and NOT made to be raped to show rape is bad or made to go through accident to show accident is bad or to go through some disease to show disease is bad is again a much ridiculous talk .

.REAL FIGHTERS are NOT fighting unneccessary mishaps ,suffering,pain,tragic events of life ..A real soul is the one fighting to attain his actual goal ..You do not even know what actual fighting is in the first place ..real warriors are NOT the one wasting their time in unwanted mishaps and suffering BUT fighting for their actual goals and they are the conquerors of life .

It is highly evident that you who think suffering is good still has subconsciously tied your mind to christianity or buddhism like enemy programs ..Because these programmes emphasise that victim learns its lesson in suffering,pain,abuse ,misfortune,tragic events and these enemy programmes teach that
"It is good for me to be afflicted so that I have learned your statues ,and all things work together for good to those who love christ " and all these 100s of thrash verses where you think a victim learns lessons through all tragic pain while the evil keep living a good life and keep inflicting harm on others ..TRAGIC LESSONS AND PUNISHMENT are only to be done for evil people which alone gets converted to lessons ...

 

[Umun]

Pain from being raped or pain from losing your body parts after a severe accident or pain from fatal diseases like cancer really motivates you ??Well it can never motivate a sane person ..When you have lost life or your body parts after such excruciating pain ,what sort of work you can ever do ??This is what happens when we are heavily infested and pestered with Christianity and it's fatal teachings

I have to agree that the examples you mentioned are not very motivating but you'd be surprised how some people in those situations can live a better and more fulfilled life than someone who has it all good and a bad attitude and approach to living.

My former self would be tempted to reply in a different manner, however now I have no emotional response to cases such as yours.
Almost calling me a christian is an indication of some issues that you need to address. Trauma can be resolved with persistence in healing meditations and asking for help from wherever you feel is appropriate.

I suppose that saying anything more would be futile here seeing your level of receptivity and wish you success in attaining balance and overcoming whatever is making you so hostile and arrogant.

SWP

 

[Blitzkreig [JG]]

you have another nonsensical point which you made where you claimed that if one is harassed one time ,they will make sure the next time they dont get into one such situations ..Again what a huge pile of joke ..My entire posts is why one should NEVER suffer in life in any way ,,so You think in order to never suffer ,one needs to be shown a demo before hand so that they never go through the real event is itself another unwise and immatured claim..It is like the same theory ,if a child touches a frying pan ,and after touching the pan when it gets its finger burned ,this child will seldom touch it once again ..My entire post is about how a person must NEVER go through bad things in life ..If a child does NOT even think of touching the pan barehanded ever in life,, it will seldom burn its finger in the first place ..A good karmic soul will seldom go through this touching pan scenario to understand it is wrong to o touch a pan..

A negative karma filled soul goes through all worst things and loses all its precious time and does NOT get the rightfull things it actually deserves in its life and goes through all worst things of life while the other people of its age are getting all things easily and right things at the right time ..A person who is going through worst things and suffering ,is because they have huge negative karma ,that should be worked to completely remove and NOT made to be raped to show rape is bad or made to go through accident to show accident is bad or to go through some disease to show disease is bad is again a much ridiculous talk .

.REAL FIGHTERS are NOT fighting unneccessary mishaps ,suffering,pain,tragic events of life ..A real soul is the one fighting to attain his actual goal ..You do not even know what actual fighting is in the first place ..real warriors are NOT the one wasting their time in unwanted mishaps and suffering BUT fighting for their actual goals and they are the conquerors of life .

It is highly evident that you who think suffering is good still has subconsciously tied your mind to christianity or buddhism like enemy programs ..Because these programmes emphasise that victim learns its lesson in suffering,pain,abuse ,misfortune,tragic events and these enemy programmes teach that
"It is good for me to be afflicted so that I have learned your statues ,and all things work together for good to those who love christ " and all these 100s of thrash verses where you think a victim learns lessons through all tragic pain while the evil keep living a good life and keep inflicting harm on others ..TRAGIC LESSONS AND PUNISHMENT are only to be done for evil people which alone gets converted to lessons ...

Sister, you are being overly aggressive when you try to declare who is Satanic or who is not, especially to people who have been advancing on this path for far longer than you. It is fine to battle in the realm of words and ideas, but going beyond this comes off as disrespectful. Instead of waiting for an answer to your valid question, you are rushing and attacking the other person directly, when in reality the conversation was productive until then.

If you are seen as a person that attacks others during discussions, this will make people less likely to want to converse with you. JG NP is not being paid to answer your question, but was conversing with you out of his own desire to teach. If you have questions, then please certainly ask, but please try to restrain this from getting overly heated.

------------------------

In regard to your question itself, you are mistaking the function of Saturn with what Christianity teaches. Suffering teaches us the hard way, but massive suffering is not required to learn, either. To an advanced soul, Saturn does not bring massive suffering, yet it is considered the most malefic just due to its "base" nature in showing us reality.

If Saturn tries to teach an unadvanced person how to manage money, it might cause them to lose a fortune. However, an advanced soul might learn the same lesson in an easier way. Perhaps they watch a horrific video of a person who suffers a loss and they are able to grasp the seriousness of the situation, but without massive suffering. In both cases, Saturn has brought a hard lesson, but the advanced person avoided major suffering.

No other energy can fulfill what Saturn does, so yes it is beneficial in its own way, and yes it can be hard, but it does so to teach us to avoid further pain. Saturn is a defense tool which occurs to avoid suffering. The child who does not take their hand off the burner will could even lose a hand, but if they learn not to do this with only a tiny burn, then that is a success.

Yes, you are certainly right that we should avoid suffering, but it is just by human nature that we do things which are unrealistic, and therefore Saturn has to teach us to avoid this. Wherever in your chart you have Neptune or Jupiter are prime areas which are most likely to be unrealistic and in need of the lessons of Saturn.

 

[phi3.14infinity]

Sister, you are being overly aggressive when you try to declare who is Satanic or who is not, especially to people who have been advancing on this path for far longer than you. It is fine to battle in the realm of words and ideas, but going beyond this comes off as disrespectful. Instead of waiting for an answer to your valid question, you are rushing and attacking the other person directly, when in reality the conversation was productive until then.

If you are seen as a person that attacks others during discussions, this will make people less likely to want to converse with you. JG NP is not being paid to answer your question, but was conversing with you out of his own desire to teach. If you have questions, then please certainly ask, but please try to restrain this from getting overly heated.

------------------------

In regard to your question itself, you are mistaking the function of Saturn with what Christianity teaches. Suffering teaches us the hard way, but massive suffering is not required to learn, either. To an advanced soul, Saturn does not bring massive suffering, yet it is considered the most malefic just due to its "base" nature in showing us reality.

If Saturn tries to teach an unadvanced person how to manage money, it might cause them to lose a fortune. However, an advanced soul might learn the same lesson in an easier way. Perhaps they watch a horrific video of a person who suffers a loss and they are able to grasp the seriousness of the situation, but without massive suffering. In both cases, Saturn has brought a hard lesson, but the advanced person avoided major suffering.

No other energy can fulfill what Saturn does, so yes it is beneficial in its own way, and yes it can be hard, but it does so to teach us to avoid further pain. Saturn is a defense tool which occurs to avoid suffering. The child who does not take their hand off the burner will could even lose a hand, but if they learn not to do this with only a tiny burn, then that is a success.

Yes, you are certainly right that we should avoid suffering, but it is just by human nature that we do things which are unrealistic, and therefore Saturn has to teach us to avoid this. Wherever in your chart you have Neptune or Jupiter are prime areas which are most likely to be unrealistic and in need of the lessons of Saturn.

brother you have really mistaken me ..I will always respect you for your contribution ..I was definetely aggresive but please tell me how is saying desire in itself is suffering NOT a buddhist vibe??It is true we can want anything whether happiness or abuse or riches or relationship ,thats upto individual or whatever ,But saying suffering is for good is definetely unacceptable ..I am being aggressive sometimes because I do NOT want any satanic brothers and sisters to undermine pain or suffering and embrace it as if it is good ..People writing u come out strong out of pain is definetely not right ..It is pain and suffering that has taken everything of many people life ..

We as a satanists must never want to suffer ...Yes I was being very agrressive because I do not want people to suffer or embrace it as if it is some gift in life ..It is not ..I know all religions of this world ..Spent many years researching all ..Suffering is heavily glorified in enemy programmes a very very lot ...All enemy programmes say this "You have to absolve your karma only by suffering or that suffering teaches you things" ..These kind of false idiocy are NOT from satanism but all enemy corrupted religions ..

With intrinsic suffering ,no body can really evolve like how people here are saying ..There had been acid attacked victims ..Ask them what was their mistake in such a horrible accident ...Nothing ..Ask any victim of anything what they lost after some tragic incidents ..They would say many ..But ask them what they gained from it ,No body will say any ...The problem is that no matter whoever the satanic brother or sister is ,,if they do not leave their enemy theories and destroy those sub conscious enemy infestations of all these vain theories ,,they will infest the same into satanism as well .,,thereby corrupting satanism also ...The years of evolvement of many here still is not completely visible when they spew the same enemy programme theories ...Naked pluto is definetely a very kind person ..But he still has to leave some deep christian or buddhist programming which is ingrained in his consciousness ..I am suprised with just 4 months of practise ,,I could see certain things and yet people with many years of advancement still have not erased their false theories which are the enemies of satanism

 

[phi3.14infinity]

I have to agree that the examples you mentioned are not very motivating but you'd be surprised how some people in those situations can live a better and more fulfilled life than someone who has it all good and a bad attitude and approach to living.

My former self would be tempted to reply in a different manner, however now I have no emotional response to cases such as yours.
Almost calling me a christian is an indication of some issues that you need to address. Trauma can be resolved with persistence in healing meditations and asking for help from wherever you feel is appropriate.

I suppose that saying anything more would be futile here seeing your level of receptivity and wish you success in attaining balance and overcoming whatever is making you so hostile and arrogant.

SWP

I NEVER called you or anyone a christian ..That was NOT what I really meant ..what part of "deeply infested with christian programming" is hard to ponder here ??.It means one who embraces suffering instead of working to avoid it or forgiving instead of justice means we still have christian programming infested in us ,which is not allowing us to conquer and have a well deserved life .. .When told the truth that suffering can NEVER give you anything good but pain,setbacks,sufferings and that every satanist should work to avoid it ,,,If you instead tell me I am traumatic and need to work on healing emotions ,,well a sane human expresses their emotions in the right sane way UNLIKE christian way of accepting pain ..,then it is you who did not understand what I am trying to address in the first place ..

Your posts on judging me that I am this or that only shows you are too innocent to understand the point here ..If a teacher or a person teaches a child about sex education does NOT mean that the teacher was sexually abused ...If a person is a bomb squad person and specialises in tracing bombs ,does NOT mean he lost his family in some bomb blast ..That is how ridiculous your conclusions towards me are ..Those who embrace suffering are victims ..Those who are against it are victors

 

[phi3.14infinity]

Sister, you are being overly aggressive when you try to declare who is Satanic or who is not, especially to people who have been advancing on this path for far longer than you. It is fine to battle in the realm of words and ideas, but going beyond this comes off as disrespectful. Instead of waiting for an answer to your valid question, you are rushing and attacking the other person directly, when in reality the conversation was productive until then.

If you are seen as a person that attacks others during discussions, this will make people less likely to want to converse with you. JG NP is not being paid to answer your question, but was conversing with you out of his own desire to teach. If you have questions, then please certainly ask, but please try to restrain this from getting overly heated.

------------------------

In regard to your question itself, you are mistaking the function of Saturn with what Christianity teaches. Suffering teaches us the hard way, but massive suffering is not required to learn, either. To an advanced soul, Saturn does not bring massive suffering, yet it is considered the most malefic just due to its "base" nature in showing us reality.

If Saturn tries to teach an unadvanced person how to manage money, it might cause them to lose a fortune. However, an advanced soul might learn the same lesson in an easier way. Perhaps they watch a horrific video of a person who suffers a loss and they are able to grasp the seriousness of the situation, but without massive suffering. In both cases, Saturn has brought a hard lesson, but the advanced person avoided major suffering.

No other energy can fulfill what Saturn does, so yes it is beneficial in its own way, and yes it can be hard, but it does so to teach us to avoid further pain. Saturn is a defense tool which occurs to avoid suffering. The child who does not take their hand off the burner will could even lose a hand, but if they learn not to do this with only a tiny burn, then that is a success.

Yes, you are certainly right that we should avoid suffering, but it is just by human nature that we do things which are unrealistic, and therefore Saturn has to teach us to avoid this. Wherever in your chart you have Neptune or Jupiter are prime areas which are most likely to be unrealistic and in need of the lessons of Saturn.

for any advanced soul ,saturn or any planet for that part can not negatively influence the person in any way ..That is what I mean that we as satanists need to advance in such a way that even saturn cannot influence us ..But saying suffering is good just means someone is in still lower dimension who are not spiritual..so such people need to do all things spiritually to raise themself to a level that no planet can have a negative influence on us

 

[Alexandros Iowno [JG]]

Many of your points here are harsh reality of life Which is exactly what I have said in a harsh way which you have said in a casual polite way ..Does not make much difference...You talk about mother sufferings to give birth which is again a logical fallacy ..Every living thing goes through "this" which u claim as suffering to give another life ,And this is NOT what you even call suffering in the very first place as birthing is something which all female species do is a normal biological phenomenon which should NOT even be counted as suffering in the first place...When all living female species goes through this for sometime ,it is NOT even suffering and pain ..What every living being does is NOT even what I am talking of

By this false logic even pooping is a suffering thing ,which every living things do because that is the biological aspect of life ..These kind of things are not what even is called as suffering ..

When I claim suffering it means when a specific human goes through things which others did not even go through ..It can be anything like rape,abuse ,severe accidents,born to abusive parents ,having abusive wife or husband ,having enemies who hatch severe conspiracy against you ..Being born in a very poor family and suffering hard to make your daily ends even meet lacking in heavy nutrition ,Having a very fatal disease ..These things are NOT NOT what a person who has a very good natal chart would even go through and the top 10 percent of this world would have NEVER gone through ..

Your problem is you think just because I have written of why one needs to avoid suffering,you assume I have self pity and I have accepted things in life ..Again a total wrong assumption..I am making it clear that one needs to avoid all sort of suffering at all times to save their life and live the most deserving life ..

Someone who writes a post on why is it necessary to stop complimenting suffering and work brutally hard to eliminate it means ,that this person has accepted defeat is a very wrong assumption..I am not responsible if you assume something which I am not which is exactly what I am talking about ..

Your point on duality is what any person having a strong negative karma goes through ..People born in this Jewish matrix goes through this duality is not some new point which something no body does not know...True satanists rise above duality and take all sort of necessary spiritual steps to avoid all this unnecessary wreckage and live the most deserving life superseding and sublimating all their karma ..

No satanists should ever have to waste their life going through suffering ..This is what ignorant souls who are trapped in this matrix who have no tools to win their fate give their warped excuses of why suffering is good ..True satanists work in all ways to conquer everything and NOT sit and think suffering is virtuous which is the toxic mentality of all Christians who think that suffering and poverty are virtuous..

True satanists who work spiritually in all ways are the only one who can take complete control of their life and true satanists in every way should take complete control and dominance over their life as this is the characteristics of all gods who are not subjected to negative karma or misfortune in life ..

It is absolutely ridiculous and amusing to even think that one grows via rape,accidents,disease and you never grow infinity via this but you carry trauma ,hangups from all this to other lifetimes and this does NOT make a soul grow in infinity but because this soul has suffered the same recurring events for many life times,the soul becomes extremely weak and dies eternally because the soul is too weak to even reincarnate..

You really think it is extremely positive to go through all these events ??You are just joking and growing out of all above events ,only happens in fantasy movies and NOT in real life ..Because movies can show any unrealistic thing,it is ok to show so in movies ..But in real life,these things do not come to make you grow but break you and give you an everlasting scars ..

You think suffering is inevitable and necessary to grow and lessons in life is exactly the toxic attitude of Christians who will exactly the same which u said ..Being a satanist claiming the above thing is necessary is only going to bring many sufferings to one in a long run ..

We are NOT Christians who read the garbage book of job and believes that if one is tested via fire,they come out as gold ..This is the exact toxic mentality which many here have ..In reality if someone burns in fire ,they die the most painful death with their corpse heavily tarnished ..

When u speak of desire itself being a pain ,this only gives me a perfect Buddhist vibe ..May be you have too much Christian or Buddhist programming which you have not detached yourself completely from ..No satanists should ever think desire itself is suffering ..


Why do you write loser,nihilists,defeatists to even me when it is people who claim suffering as something virtuous are ..Only people who glorify sufferings and think it comes to make you grow and who have a toxic mindset to never eradicate it are losers,nihilists and all the negative ists which you claim ..I am against sufferings and would work in every way to avoid it ..The problem is that nihilists I know also think suffering and all this are just illusions which is exactly what people who glorify sufferings here thinks ..

Somebody who writes a whole big post claiming why suffering is a hell hole thing and how one should work to never suffer is NOT the one who has accepted defeat ..In fact people who "accept" sufferings as something virtuous are the one who have this loser and defeatist mindset and don't even understand that by glorifying this,they are the one accepting defeat ..Amusing that you don't even know the difference between a fighter and a defeatist receptor ...

If you claim suffering should exist without which this world cannot go on ,then there was absolutely no need for you to become a satanist ..you'd better off be a Christian or a Buddhist or whatever you were before venturing in here since somebody glorifying and wanting suffering can NEVER be a true satanist ..

A true satanist should desire to have complete control over life and becoming a hero of one's own life must be the aim of all satanists ...Someone who thinks that suffering is necessary should analyse themself of their spiritual satanic stance ..

Oh common naked Pluto ,,this "face suffering and fight it " is just a poor cheap advice from cheap people in the past who said all this,thinking that they were great philosophers when they were not even one but empty people who preached empty things which is so much deeply imprinted in us ...

If one is fighting for their goals,career,business profit ,fighting to make his company grow .These things are what you call fighting where you are fighting for an end greater good goal ..These are necessary and what every human should do to grow in their life ..only these kind of fightings help you grow in your life

Whereas fighting for justice when you were raped,fighting against cancer or such disease ..Fighting with abusive people who can abuse you day and night . Fighting to get even casual things which easily comes to others is NOT NOT suffering ..Because the end result of this is a total waste of time ,all sorts of wounds ,pain ..It is megnanimously ridiculous you think fighting with all unnecessary things of your life is going to make you stronger.

This fallacy is like somebody who has many important businesses to do but is fighting with his neighbour for petty issues .The end result is losing time and losing peace which could have been used to do real productive things .

Your theory on musicians also is wrong since so called musicians who do twerking and showing their body parts are disguised as musicians and these kind of garbages are the one who earn millions ..Excellant real musicians will never be sold to such cheap abhorrent acts ..

I understand you are emotionally invested in this, but try to keep a clear head and not strawman me or put words in my mouth, or for that fact, what you think people believe in.

No one said rape, illness, accidents are needed or are any way shape or form good. Quite the opposite. The example with the mother I gave you, is that this is embeded and guaranteed in life for women who want and become mothers. The same goes for fathers existential crisis of having to sustain a family. All of this is suffering. What is not guaranteed in life is accidents, rape and other bullshit you keep focusing on to make a point about being scared shitless of life. So while you admit I make proper comments on your post, you also try to demonstrate a lack of understanding to me by trying to be provocative.

I have been quite soft in my approach, as for example Friedrich Nietzsche would tell you more strongly to undergo a process of understanding how to deal with suffering, and that suffering is evil and extremely damaging when our consciousness cannot endure it, process it and transform it. Life is hard and tough, and without accepting this and interpreting this aspect of life in ways of resolving this, you will be eaten up. This happens when you want the world to be a fairy land, which cannot be and you cannot accept as so.

This transitional aspect from andrapoda to human and then to superhuman, is built by creating your character against adversity, not against a comfortable heaven you think life is. That comfortable heaven you seek, is within yourself as harmony and beauty of life, which you use against the ugly, the rotten and the low existence. This heaven can be built indeed.

Instead of the above , I am sure we do not want to be told: Be afraid, scared at every turn of potential cruel death. Be a snowflake and don't have conviction of power and good path. Cry a lot all the time. When you hear about a flu, be sure it is life or death. Complain, be a victim. You are special and valuable. Stay safe and conserve your life that is very valuable in being scared. When your mother dies, have no words of comforting and faith in existence, think she is forever gone. When your father is weak, try and help him by telling him to be scared even more. When your kids get bullied at school, blame the other kids, be incapable of defense. When someone insults you, as you are emotionally weak, be sure to have a gun at your side, do not throw punches you might get hurt. Create safe spaces in your house. Be envious at every turn because someone else has it better than you, internalize this and turn it into poison. Do not fight out of poverty in all aspects of life, become corrupted as well. Other people are always to be blamed. Focus always on the negative, watch every and all negative news. Do not curate your reality.

No one is glorifying suffering, but it is an aspect of life that is here regardless. Your stance on it can decide what this becomes and creates. It can break and destroy, or can be a transition towards the better by the nature of your being. You can break under it or endure, resolve.

Fearing this, hiding from this does no good, it is a lie to comfort yourself, which indeed you have the right to as well.

The most proper advice to suffering, is to man up or to take a certain stance, complete respectful silence. Our world is very fragmented, and from the person who has a mental existential crisis because of likes, being insulted or received a setback to innocents being blown to pieces and abused.

There is another aspect, people have been brainwashed to look and see all the negative aspects about life and forgot to see the beauty and the gratitude to be alive and progressing. There was a story I heard not long ago by some friends of this familly. A father coming back from work, found his wife hanged, suicide and their two very young kids dead. The mother was doing housework while the kids accidentally fell into the pool, they drowned. Shortly afterward, the mother found this and of course, you understand why she suicide. All people should understand this. Some won't. All of this tragedy and extreme suffering descended upon this good familly. Nothing good can come from this, but then you come and other people come and try IDENTIFY WITH THIS UNBEARABLE SUFFERING. You have no place in this story, just have a respectful stance and silence. You know nothing about the reality of true suffering, tragedy.

Along with the above there are limitless news and tragedies. Does this mean anything but that there is an element of having to fight and protect against?

All of this is misplaced imagination, overwhelming negative information, and pure delusions one puts on themselves. Reality is that you have to deal with your life and promote the positive, while not being blind and surprised about this part of life.

People think they deserve some specific answers to the suffering and tragedies they have in life, you do not really, but only those you can come up for your own self. For example, you project what should be said and taken a stance on in case a female is raped. Truth is, no answer will be proper in all peoples eyes, therefore this identification with a negative event and internalizing this is a conflict. Having empathy is not about thinking you are the main character in this story, but that someone else is and acknowledging that by removing you big ego self from this situation and treating this with the most positive lenses you can bestow on another. This is part of being human, and this is not glorifying, but trying to repair. Laudation, sustaining and fighting for the good is not glorifying the causes of the problems, but in spite of them.

Pre-emptively and to not have weak snowflake men succumbing to the least laughable problems in life to whole very bad tragedies is to let them know how to treat this suffering and promote some damn endurance and hairy balls. This works because all people participate and are given a cup of of this in life.

What the fuck we are so afraid to admit, it is our duty to avoid all of these things in time, collectively. That's why we are here.

 

[Alexandros Iowno [JG]]

you have another nonsensical point which you made where you claimed that if one is harassed one time ,they will make sure the next time they dont get into one such situations ..Again what a huge pile of joke ..My entire posts is why one should NEVER suffer in life in any way ,,so You think in order to never suffer ,one needs to be shown a demo before hand so that they never go through the real event is itself another unwise and immatured claim..It is like the same theory ,if a child touches a frying pan ,and after touching the pan when it gets its finger burned ,this child will seldom touch it once again ..My entire post is about how a person must NEVER go through bad things in life ..If a child does NOT even think of touching the pan barehanded ever in life,, it will seldom burn its finger in the first place ..A good karmic soul will seldom go through this touching pan scenario to understand it is wrong to o touch a pan..

A negative karma filled soul goes through all worst things and loses all its precious time and does NOT get the rightfull things it actually deserves in its life and goes through all worst things of life while the other people of its age are getting all things easily and right things at the right time ..A person who is going through worst things and suffering ,is because they have huge negative karma ,that should be worked to completely remove and NOT made to be raped to show rape is bad or made to go through accident to show accident is bad or to go through some disease to show disease is bad is again a much ridiculous talk .

.REAL FIGHTERS are NOT fighting unneccessary mishaps ,suffering,pain,tragic events of life ..A real soul is the one fighting to attain his actual goal ..You do not even know what actual fighting is in the first place ..real warriors are NOT the one wasting their time in unwanted mishaps and suffering BUT fighting for their actual goals and they are the conquerors of life .

It is highly evident that you who think suffering is good still has subconsciously tied your mind to christianity or buddhism like enemy programs ..Because these programmes emphasise that victim learns its lesson in suffering,pain,abuse ,misfortune,tragic events and these enemy programmes teach that
"It is good for me to be afflicted so that I have learned your statues ,and all things work together for good to those who love christ " and all these 100s of thrash verses where you think a victim learns lessons through all tragic pain while the evil keep living a good life and keep inflicting harm on others ..TRAGIC LESSONS AND PUNISHMENT are only to be done for evil people which alone gets converted to lessons ...

Funny enough, as a kid, I remember perfectly, I was told to not touch the boiling wth oil hot pan. Be sure, I put my whole hand on it, having then needing medical assistance for a month. Surely, I didn't put my hand anywhere I was told not to. Life works because of trials and failures, this is another aspect you have to understand in time. You have to allow yourself to do mistakes and fail, expecting anything but this is definitely a condemnation.

You keep strawmaning me, but to tell you something very important. It is a big difference in studying about warriors and living like one. My advices come from the second situation.

I think I have been very fair in my replies, I hope to not expect any more insults from you like the xianity and buddhism things. That is plain missdirection and enemy tactic of corrupting what I said, far away from just misunderstanding.

 

[General Yeager]

Its fine. Women are just naturally much more emotional than men so you kind of automatically expect this kind of reaction. Only when there a presence of a man who they admire and respect and more importantly trust to lead them ,will they ever back off from their points. Its somewhat hilarious seeing it though. Kind of also explains why Women overwhelming support Leftist Politics which promises mass handouts and Utopia ,which Men overwhelmingly support Far Right Viewpoints about Supremacy of the one who deserves the accolades.

 

[phi3.14infinity]

Funny enough, as a kid, I remember perfectly, I was told to not touch the boiling wth oil hot pan. Be sure, I put my whole hand on it, having then needing medical assistance for a month. Surely, I didn't put my hand anywhere I was told not to. Life works because of trials and failures, this is another aspect you have to understand in time. You have to allow yourself to do mistakes and fail, expecting anything but this is definitely a condemnation.

You keep strawmaning me, but to tell you something very important. It is a big difference in studying about warriors and living like one. My advices come from the second situation.

I think I have been very fair in my replies, I hope to not expect any more insults from you like the xianity and buddhism things. That is plain missdirection and enemy tactic of corrupting what I said, far away from just misunderstanding.

I respect you a lot for your kind and polite way of talking but I am very sorry sometimes when reading your big long paragraphs,The post look very equivalent to how new age gurus would write ..While it is very true you have always been a very kind and polite person ,but sometimes the new age gurus vibe is plain visible ..It is again not to condemn you ,but just a constructive feedback..I have no way been harsh in saying this ..It is just my feed back ..

 

[Alexandros Iowno [JG]]

brother you have really mistaken me ..I will always respect you for your contribution ..I was definetely aggresive but please tell me how is saying desire in itself is suffering NOT a buddhist vibe??It is true we can want anything whether happiness or abuse or riches or relationship ,thats upto individual or whatever ,But saying suffering is for good is definetely unacceptable ..I am being aggressive sometimes because I do NOT want any satanic brothers and sisters to undermine pain or suffering and embrace it as if it is good ..People writing u come out strong out of pain is definetely not right ..It is pain and suffering that has taken everything of many people life ..

We as a satanists must never want to suffer ...Yes I was being very agrressive because I do not want people to suffer or embrace it as if it is some gift in life ..It is not ..I know all religions of this world ..Spent many years researching all ..Suffering is heavily glorified in enemy programmes a very very lot ...All enemy programmes say this "You have to absolve your karma only by suffering or that suffering teaches you things" ..These kind of false idiocy are NOT from satanism but all enemy corrupted religions ..

With intrinsic suffering ,no body can really evolve like how people here are saying ..There had been acid attacked victims ..Ask them what was their mistake in such a horrible accident ...Nothing ..Ask any victim of anything what they lost after some tragic incidents ..They would say many ..But ask them what they gained from it ,No body will say any ...The problem is that no matter whoever the satanic brother or sister is ,,if they do not leave their enemy theories and destroy those sub conscious enemy infestations of all these vain theories ,,they will infest the same into satanism as well .,,thereby corrupting satanism also ...The years of evolvement of many here still is not completely visible when they spew the same enemy programme theories ...Naked pluto is definetely a very kind person ..But he still has to leave some deep christian or buddhist programming which is ingrained in his consciousness ..I am suprised with just 4 months of practise ,,I could see certain things and yet people with many years of advancement still have not erased their false theories which are the enemies of satanism

Desire being "suffering" is science. The proper word is pain, and how your body processes pain from a punch is similar to how your brain processes desire for an ice cream. It is not a philosophy statement, but a statement on how the dual nature of existence works.

In order for something to be motioned, for an action to be taken and for change to happen, it must come from two sides: Inspiration, Harmony, Constructive things or from fear, pain, suffering. Life and progress combines both, and the goal is to reach towards the higher existence, obviously away from the negative elements. From this you "rebel" against "death".

When you don't have something you desire, you might have a revelation right now, you will experience sentiments that are treated by your body as pain, even if your consciousness sees this as a tool of motion. Desire is very good in my opinion. It is how our life works.

A desire that is not real but on the side of not being pain and also not manifested, is called a delusion.

Buddists corruption is about removing desire, so that they are removed from existence on this plane. The true message here is one has to manage their desire, complete them and use them as instruments. Ultimately the mechanism behind this is real but misappropriated by dumb minds and lack of spiritual ability.

 

[Havoc]

I think there is a misunderstanding here, I I’m understanding everyone correctly I think the majority of us are saying a little stress and hard work are good motivation for us and we should seek to resolve the issues bothering.

While phi3.14 is making the point that enduring trauma and being victims doesn’t serve any constructive purpose.

These both sound like good points that can exist side by side, each of you may be attributing things to the others case that are not there and trying to defend against points not being made by your opponent.

 

[phi3.14infinity]

I understand you are emotionally invested in this, but try to keep a clear head and not strawman me or put words in my mouth, or for that fact, what you think people believe in.

No one said rape, illness, accidents are needed or are any way shape or form good. Quite the opposite. The example with the mother I gave you, is that this is embeded and guaranteed in life for women who want and become mothers. The same goes for fathers existential crisis of having to sustain a family. All of this is suffering. What is not guaranteed in life is accidents, rape and other bullshit you keep focusing on to make a point about being scared shitless of life. So while you admit I make proper comments on your post, you also try to demonstrate a lack of understanding to me by trying to be provocative.

I have been quite soft in my approach, as for example Friedrich Nietzsche would tell you more strongly to undergo a process of understanding how to deal with suffering, and that suffering is evil and extremely damaging when our consciousness cannot endure it, process it and transform it. Life is hard and tough, and without accepting this and interpreting this aspect of life in ways of resolving this, you will be eaten up. This happens when you want the world to be a fairy land, which cannot be and you cannot accept as so.

This transitional aspect from andrapoda to human and then to superhuman, is built by creating your character against adversity, not against a comfortable heaven you think life is. That comfortable heaven you seek, is within yourself as harmony and beauty of life, which you use against the ugly, the rotten and the low existence. This heaven can be built indeed.

Instead of the above , I am sure we do not want to be told: Be afraid, scared at every turn of potential cruel death. Be a snowflake and don't have conviction of power and good path. Cry a lot all the time. When you hear about a flu, be sure it is life or death. Complain, be a victim. You are special and valuable. Stay safe and conserve your life that is very valuable in being scared. When your mother dies, have no words of comforting and faith in existence, think she is forever gone. When your father is weak, try and help him by telling him to be scared even more. When your kids get bullied at school, blame the other kids, be incapable of defense. When someone insults you, as you are emotionally weak, be sure to have a gun at your side, do not throw punches you might get hurt. Create safe spaces in your house. Be envious at every turn because someone else has it better than you, internalize this and turn it into poison. Do not fight out of poverty in all aspects of life, become corrupted as well. Other people are always to be blamed. Focus always on the negative, watch every and all negative news. Do not curate your reality.

No one is glorifying suffering, but it is an aspect of life that is here regardless. Your stance on it can decide what this becomes and creates. It can break and destroy, or can be a transition towards the better by the nature of your being. You can break under it or endure, resolve.

Fearing this, hiding from this does no good, it is a lie to comfort yourself, which indeed you have the right to as well.

The most proper advice to suffering, is to man up or to take a certain stance, complete respectful silence. Our world is very fragmented, and from the person who has a mental existential crisis because of likes, being insulted or received a setback to innocents being blown to pieces and abused.

There is another aspect, people have been brainwashed to look and see all the negative aspects about life and forgot to see the beauty and the gratitude to be alive and progressing. There was a story I heard not long ago by some friends of this familly. A father coming back from work, found his wife hanged, suicide and their two very young kids dead. The mother was doing housework while the kids accidentally fell into the pool, they drowned. Shortly afterward, the mother found this and of course, you understand why she suicide. All people should understand this. Some won't. All of this tragedy and extreme suffering descended upon this good familly. Nothing good can come from this, but then you come and other people come and try IDENTIFY WITH THIS UNBEARABLE SUFFERING. You have no place in this story, just have a respectful stance and silence. You know nothing about the reality of true suffering, tragedy.

Along with the above there are limitless news and tragedies. Does this mean anything but that there is an element of having to fight and protect against?

All of this is misplaced imagination, overwhelming negative information, and pure delusions one puts on themselves. Reality is that you have to deal with your life and promote the positive, while not being blind and surprised about this part of life.

People think they deserve some specific answers to the suffering and tragedies they have in life, you do not really, but only those you can come up for your own self. For example, you project what should be said and taken a stance on in case a female is raped. Truth is, no answer will be proper in all peoples eyes, therefore this identification with a negative event and internalizing this is a conflict. Having empathy is not about thinking you are the main character in this story, but that someone else is and acknowledging that by removing you big ego self from this situation and treating this with the most positive lenses you can bestow on another. This is part of being human, and this is not glorifying, but trying to repair. Laudation, sustaining and fighting for the good is not glorifying the causes of the problems, but in spite of them.

Pre-emptively and to not have weak snowflake men succumbing to the least laughable problems in life to whole very bad tragedies is to let them know how to treat this suffering and promote some damn endurance and hairy balls. This works because all people participate and are given a cup of of this in life.

What the fuck we are so afraid to admit, it is our duty to avoid all of these things in time, collectively. That's why we are here.

Your entire this post is again all about what suffering is .You have written the harsh realities of life in a very gentle way .,which I have written in a harsh way .There ain't that big difference .But there are many people on this earth who never go through suffering ..Are we born on this earth to develop our character ??wrong ..we are born to achieve and be happy ..When we say of character development,does it mean we never had that good of a character before this suffering after only which we developed this so called character ?? Absolutely not ..

Yes Heinrich himmler and nietsche do tell that you become strong by pain ..But the pain they talk about is the pain and hardwork done to achieve a goal and not the gross unnecessary sufferings of life ..you have seriously overlooked the real sufferings of life like the one I said ..if you people really think that someone becomes stronger after a rape or an accident or an acid attack or fatal disease,then I don't understand how the wisdom is lacking here even in advanced satanists ..

Well Satanism is never about removing your ego ..Your Ego is your actual personality and when one removes their ego,they are absolutely nothing and Satanism is completely against all this ..Claiming to be ego removing and saying desire itself is pain is what corrupted new age and Buddhism teaches a human which is exactly how you have written ..

You are a very kind person but please remove the enemy programme theories which also you have with you and are trying to intermingle both the enemy programme theories and Satanism into one which will never mix ,just like water and oil do not mix ...Because you still have new age Buddhist theories in your sub conscious mind .You are not able to see why there is no need for any human to suffer .

 

[sublimesatanist]

...

I understand exactly what you're trying to say. Those incarnations... the broken or lost people.

The universe can be very unforgiving, yet this is mostly the result of cause and effect and several lifetimes of negative karma.

I feel you brother. 700,000 people commit suicide per year. The are wars, famines, stillbirths, disease and other unsightly things that occur to those who had no choice in those matters.

Once I saw a pigeon trapped on a rafter with spikes. The poor thing was flapping to get away but it was stuck in a tight corner between the rafter, wall and ceiling. Again, cause and effect.

I told myself recently that I need to just say 'fuck you world, I will commit to my path and work towards making my next life better, along with everyone else, even if we live in a world of literal shit".

I no longer care that it's painful and difficult. Think about riding a bike; starting off is very hard, but once you get going it becomes easier and easier.

Please do not give into despair. I've been in that place most of my life and I've seen where it takes people. We are all capable of so much more than we realize, always. This is the path of the Satanist - realizing your unlimited potential.


In spite of all these terrible things in the world, just think how life fights to survive? Think about the countless ways they've been trying to depopulate us for many decades without success. This is the nature of life - fighting to survive against all odds. Fighting to the last breath without fear or uncertainty. This is the path of the warrior and it's one few can embrace fully.

I want you to consider how amazing people are even with life-debilitating problems. I've had such problems my entire life but Satan didn't care - he has appeared to me several times with a warmth and love that penetrated my very being.

Once I was so angry and depressed with myself that I was ready to cut myself very badly just to release those emotions. Out of desperation and without thinking I said to myself "Satan, what can I do?"
Instantly I felt an embrace from behind me. It's very hard to explain... imagine a hug that has all those feelings and sensations, only you don't actually feel it 'physically'.

My depression vanished out of nowhere and I forgot why I was so upset. My mind just went to the 'here and now'. It honestly brought me to tears.



So please, don't give up. The things you focus on are things that cannot be fully known or understood. I have faith that our Gods look after those souls who aren't given a fighting chance and I'm sure that they get a far better on in their next life.


Consider this video -

A young Autistic woman who was non-verbal her entire life was able to immediately start making conversations with the use of a tablet. Nature finds a way. It compensates for what is lost, be it in this life or another. Think of how people who lose one of their senses experienced heightened senses. These are things beyond the scope of our physical understanding and it is a true testament to Satan's power and divinity in creating us.

 

[Umun]

I NEVER called you or anyone a christian ..That was NOT what I really meant ..what part of "deeply infested with christian programming" is hard to ponder here ??.It means one who embraces suffering instead of working to avoid it or forgiving instead of justice means we still have christian programming infested in us ,which is not allowing us to conquer and have a well deserved life .. .When told the truth that suffering can NEVER give you anything good but pain,setbacks,sufferings and that every satanist should work to avoid it ,,,If you instead tell me I am traumatic and need to work on healing emotions ,,well a sane human expresses their emotions in the right sane way UNLIKE christian way of accepting pain ..,then it is you who did not understand what I am trying to address in the first place ..

Your posts on judging me that I am this or that only shows you are too innocent to understand the point here ..If a teacher or a person teaches a child about sex education does NOT mean that the teacher was sexually abused ...If a person is a bomb squad person and specialises in tracing bombs ,does NOT mean he lost his family in some bomb blast ..That is how ridiculous your conclusions towards me are ..Those who embrace suffering are victims ..Those who are against it are victors

So... After having carefully reread everything in this thread I think I have a better understanding of what you've been trying to communicate with limited success and why.

The parts of your posts where you refer to deprogramming are essentially correct as a general hypothetical constation and maybe the most important point to take away from this (and I wholeheartedly agree that it should be a matter to focus on and work hard to resolve) but the assumptions you make about people and their opinions about you are flawed.

There's an obvious problem you're having with calmly discussing these matters with people here and that has led me to believe that there's an underlying issue that makes you react like so which is why I pointed it out with the intention to direct your attention to it and maybe steer you to consider taking action about it.

There was never ill will here and as we're thinking alike about most of the things discussed it can and should be turned into a constructive conversation instead of perceiving attacks where there are none.

We all have the common goal of bettering ourselves, this community and the world. Being objective and honest with oneself first and foremost then with the others is the only way to move forward. Admitting that we've gone about something the wrong way is what gives us the possibility to correct it thus moving closer to the solution.

Analyzing the emotional aspects of a conversation overlayed on top of the logical ones is unavoidable if we're to have a complete picture of the situation, spot the problematic parts and react appropriately.

I see how my second reply can be interpreted as insulting but that is not what it was meant to be. Inconsiderate, slightly tactless and maybe not worded in the best way possible yes it was but I still stand by what I said and also think that most of the heated parts of the entire thread were due to a misunderstanding on both sides.

Please try to be a bit more selfcritical for your own benefit.

Good argument overall even if it was poorly handled in some parts. Important subjects to contemplate and gaze inwards for everyone.

SWP