What should a Satanist's views on forgiveness be?

[RamronDoree]

I'm looking for a bit of clarity...

I've recently been compelled to write about everything I've done in life, from my accomplishments to my shortcomings. In the process, I'm reviewing what I've done, what others have done to me, looking at the people that have come and gone along the way, and I started thinking about the nature of forgiveness.

Now, as far as I understand it, guilt and forgiveness are tools that the enemy uses to keep people oppressed and depressed as explained in Nietzschean schools of thought. Buddhists also have somewhat of an unhealthy relationship with forgiveness, lauding it over everyone as if they are superior to everyone else and as if they are incapable of wrongdoing.

Given this logic, if searching for forgiveness is something that robs me of power and agency, then, as a devotee of Satan, I should be wise to the fact and head for the hills.

I am curious, however, to know what the Satanic attitude to forgiveness is - giving or getting. Are there ever occasions where forgiveness is worth being sought after? Is there something so heinous that it can never be forgiven?

I also don't think forgiveness and trust are synonymous. I may eventually be able to forgive someone for doing something, but I may not trust them with that particular thing again. But, then, does forgiveness mean I should be open to the idea that they can earn my trust back?

 

[FancyMancy]

We are individuals and can forgive if we want or think it is OK to. Satan does stand for justice, though. If someone has been out to hurt you deliberately and maliciously, then it's up to you to forgive them or not, punish them and forgive them, just punish them... whatever. We can never forgive our enemy - the jew and its overlords, however. Possibly - maybe - we might be able to forgive some Humans who have sided with the jew, but that would be too complicated and there would be too many factors to list here.

I have heard it being said before, and this was also preached, that forgiveness is for oneself, the forgiver, to have oneself and to allow oneself to move on and be freed, rather than for the forgivee. That may, or may not, be the case. Forgiveness might, or might not, allow or encourage the offender to continue their malice. We should not be like the christian - "hate the sin, love the sinner". If someone does us wrong, then it is up to us to decide how to react to that. If we forgive the sinner, then they might walk all over us, or worse. This could be put into the context of bearing arms to protect oneself, as well, which makes a lot of sense. The RtRs and other curses thrown upon the jew are like Spiritual arms which the jew is powerless to defend itself from.

HPS Maxine, if I am not mistaken, made a post/sermon about being sorry ourselves. In it, it was said that being sorry is actually like cursing oneself. I do not think this meant, for example, if 2 members on here, or in one's family/friends circles, fight about something and call each other names, etc., (or worse), then apologising, that that would be wrong which would end up in us cursing ourselves. I think it was more about being sorry for being yourself, a Human, Pagan, Satanist and being of Satan and being anti-semitic by Nature. We should never be sorry for being our individual selves - Satan stands for freedom and individuality and identity - but of course there are rules and laws, both Natural and Man-made, which we have to abide by - Satan also stands for justice. We should not be sorry for having pride, because having pride is important - but not being arrogant and cocky, of course.

Having and abiding by decent rules and laws is good so that we don't have problems and things, and because while we live in society and adhere to National Socialist legislation (eventually), we are still Spiritual Satanists, which means we can attract like-minded individuals to us for our own things. Possibly, employing or ignoring morals and ethics, we could build our own civilisation on an uninhabited Planet and have ourself as the ruler and have our own Draconian rules and things or our own gentle rules and things, as long as we do not wrong our fellow NSs/SSs, Satan, the Gods and Goddesses; however, as we advance in meditations and improve ourselves, our true Nature comes out and we are aligned more with Satanic values and principles either deliberately and/or by accident, as a result of workings and advancements - and we should never be sorry nor seek forgiveness for improving ourselves and being ourselves, nor need to forgive others for improving and being themselves. This still does not mean, necessarily, that all individuals would all get on with each other all the time or maybe at all. Even some Gods and Goddesses would not all be best friends with each other, but they are still civil and courteous.

The jew reckons that we, Humans, must seek its forgiveness because we are not jewish; being born Gentile/Human = being sinful and dirty and evil, in the eyes of the jew. The jewish value is to die to self, in order to be consumed by the enemy - literally - and to be a slave of the jew. Satan and the Gods and Goddesses know that we, Humans, should and must be our individual selves, Naturally, and be proud of doing and being so. The Satanic, Human value is to be ourself and to be individual with identity, in order to improve Oneself and the Universe. Forgiveness is not required for that.

Forgiveness may be warranted and given, or not. It is up to you to decide if, how, when, for how long, etc., to give or withhold forgiveness; and seek it - if seeking, it is up to those you might have wronged to also do, or not do, likewise. "Those Without" (non-NSs/non-SSs (although, they may still be NS and SS in their Heart and Soul, but they just don't know or realise it)) might or might not realise these things similarly as we do, and the result might or might not be acceptable, understood, etc., along NS and SS lines.

 

[darkmonkey666]

It really is up to the indivual person somewhat at least what they want in their life and if they want to keep associating with someone etc. Forgiveness would more come in if a person is an honest good person but makes a mistake that harms someone. The person they harm knows they didn't intend it. That in my mind is ok and actually really good especially if the person tries to make it up to the other person.

However most the cases where forgiveness is used is just encouraging people to be a good victim.

The stuff with the xtians where someone comes in rapes you and murders your children and then you say "I forgive you" and visit the person in prison and try to show love to them (if you watch any crime documentaries you will know this kind of stuff happens a lot with xtians) that is pure sickness in my mind.

There is a point at which Justice needs to be done and forgiveness is not a good thing. If society ran on forgive everyone love everyone it would fall apart and crime would get out of control (That is kind of what is happening some places)

I think personally instead of people feeling sorry for stuff they should try to right it and correct it and if the person that feels they were wronged values the relationship they will forgive the person.

That it it kind of is a natural thing but twisted by the enemy.

Of course there is a lot of stuff that should not be forgiven or at least not without some kind of punishment.

 

[ChaosBringer666]

I'm looking for a bit of clarity...

I've recently been compelled to write about everything I've done in life, from my accomplishments to my shortcomings. In the process, I'm reviewing what I've done, what others have done to me, looking at the people that have come and gone along the way, and I started thinking about the nature of forgiveness.

Now, as far as I understand it, guilt and forgiveness are tools that the enemy uses to keep people oppressed and depressed as explained in Nietzschean schools of thought. Buddhists also have somewhat of an unhealthy relationship with forgiveness, lauding it over everyone as if they are superior to everyone else and as if they are incapable of wrongdoing.

Given this logic, if searching for forgiveness is something that robs me of power and agency, then, as a devotee of Satan, I should be wise to the fact and head for the hills.

I am curious, however, to know what the Satanic attitude to forgiveness is - giving or getting. Are there ever occasions where forgiveness is worth being sought after? Is there something so heinous that it can never be forgiven?

I also don't think forgiveness and trust are synonymous. I may eventually be able to forgive someone for doing something, but I may not trust them with that particular thing again. But, then, does forgiveness mean I should be open to the idea that they can earn my trust back?

i'm going to try and be brief.

you have a good idea of what trust and forgiveness are, but its not a one size fits all type deal.

Obviously this world can leave others very messed so people don't always have the best intentions, the most important thing is if you can decipher if said person is jewish, because when your a Satanist you get a kind of veil around you that 95% can pick up on and identify as their enemy. So they will try and screw with you nearly every chance they get. So if you can't yet identify them, be suspicious. a Jew is a jew is a jew.

so as an example of trust and forgiveness i'd like to use our Gods.

they do not all feel the same on the subject, a more specific would be Enlil. If you don't keep your word [depending on seriousness] his opinion of you will drop regardless, and it is very hard to earn that trust back its not impossible but difficult, of course there are others that are i bit more forgiving but at the end of the day word is bond to them and should be taken seriously.

regarding humans it is the same for others as it is for yourself. Did they learn from it, what steps are they taking so it doesn't happen again. do they regret it, ect. in the end the choice depends solely on the offended obviously there are somethings one should not forgive and give trust to person x.

If it's self forgiveness one should evaluate, do the above, begin a detaching ritual if needed, and truly let go and move on with their life.

hope this helped.
have a good day.

 

[Ghost in the Machine]

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Being realistic. That is the Satanic attitude towards forgiveness and pretty much everything else in regards to similar topics.

How you assess and judge the circumstances, the flaws, the causes, whether it's likely to happen again and again or if it was an honest mistake that has or is progressively changing in correction, all of that is up to you. Being realistic is what can save you from being emotionally driven to forgiving a blatant leech who claims 'friendship' and yet continues to fuck you over with some sob story every time over and over.

When you're forgiving someone for the same kinds of mistakes again and again far too frequently, you're clearly not being realistic, as an example. Forgiveness is not evil in and of itself, it's perfectly normal for when someone feels legitimately remorseful and bad for their actions that they'd desire to be forgiven, but this is where the importance of sincerity lies. 'Forgiveness' is just something the enemy has used and abused for years so they and the 'goyim' can keep fucking up and doing stupid shit like murder innocents, lie, cheat and bullshit their way through life because "Oh it's okay so long I ask for forgiveness~".

Sometimes words and saying your sorry for the same things too often will cause such statements to be empty and meaningless by which it loses sincerity and no longer means the individual is saying it to actually apologize, rather they're just saying it at that point so they can feel free to keep doing the mistakes because to them "It's okay so long as I just keep apologizing!".

From there it's real action that matters most, changing for the better and actually progressing with real positive results in correction, not being a broken record.

It's just being realistic, that's all.

 

[RamronDoree]

Essentially, at the risk of a reduction ad absurdum, what I'm gathering is that this is something akin to risk management? Trust and forgive so long as it doesn't pose a threat to you?

 

[Damon1]

Essentially, at the risk of a reduction ad absurdum, what I'm gathering is that this is something akin to risk management? Trust and forgive so long as it doesn't pose a threat to you?

It's judging everything carefully and making the appropriate decision. If there's more benefit in forgiving then do so. It would be bad to ruin a friendship just because someone did something once that he deeply regretted later. But there are other cases where forgiving a person is bad or dangerous. There are people who don't learn from their mistakes or who are psychic vampires and in that case it's better to remove them from your life completely.

 

[Sundara]

I'm looking for a bit of clarity...

I've recently been compelled to write about everything I've done in life, from my accomplishments to my shortcomings. In the process, I'm reviewing what I've done, what others have done to me, looking at the people that have come and gone along the way, and I started thinking about the nature of forgiveness.

Now, as far as I understand it, guilt and forgiveness are tools that the enemy uses to keep people oppressed and depressed as explained in Nietzschean schools of thought. Buddhists also have somewhat of an unhealthy relationship with forgiveness, lauding it over everyone as if they are superior to everyone else and as if they are incapable of wrongdoing.

Given this logic, if searching for forgiveness is something that robs me of power and agency, then, as a devotee of Satan, I should be wise to the fact and head for the hills.

I am curious, however, to know what the Satanic attitude to forgiveness is - giving or getting. Are there ever occasions where forgiveness is worth being sought after? Is there something so heinous that it can never be forgiven?

I also don't think forgiveness and trust are synonymous. I may eventually be able to forgive someone for doing something, but I may not trust them with that particular thing again. But, then, does forgiveness mean I should be open to the idea that they can earn my trust back?

You’ve got to just think for yourself here. Forgiveness towards people that are important or close to you in non-abusive relationships for example is way different than forgiving thousands of years of oppression and torture. There’s different types of forgiveness in my opinion as well. If someone has hurt a person to a large degree, like bad abuse, that’s not a situation that can ever be truly forgiven. But with traumatic situations, after there’s no more emotions to be vented and a person is just holding on to those emotions and dwelling on them this can start to act negatively on a victim. Sometimes a situation has to be let go of in heart and mind to obtain peace. It’s not really forgiveness in the traditional sense but some people call it that. I did this once. I still hate the person and during meditation emotions still resurface, but for a long time this hatred I felt was like a weight that held me back from being happy. I wound up coming to a state of “forgiveness” in some way. Not forgiving this persons actions or justifying them, but after a long time, just understanding that what happened is just something that happened and it needed to stay in the past. The feelings I felt towards the person were so intense that not even his death would’ve resolved anything that happened or would’ve fixed the way I felt. At that point, what the do you do? He wasn’t worth even hating every day of my life. A person can become not worth your thoughts, energy, or emotions. I can use any hatred that crops up against the jews because that is a permanent solution to the worlds problems. I think everything should be in balance. Taking anything to an extreme can be negative. In personal relationships that are close, one another is bound to piss person off eventually. Room mates can be annoying, partners, whatever. It gets worse as a person advances for a while too, because you can see how stupid people are. Early days as a Satanist are generally full of a lot of suppressed hatred being released and negative realizations about the world. This is a good thing, it sets you off on the right foot in really finding yourself and drawing boundaries in the right areas.

 

[Bravera]

A being may do anything they desire as long as they are capable.
----

 

[NinRick]

A being may do anything they desire as long as they are capable.
----

Horribly wrong.

Are you implying we should do whatever we want to?

So it is okay to get some pups and and kittens just to torture them?

No.

Always keep morals in mind. With every thing you do.

Just because we are able to curse most of people out there, should we torture them just because we want to?

No.

This is not even cool either.

This is just plain stupidity and cancer.

 

[Bravera]

A being may do anything they desire as long as they are capable.
----

Horribly wrong.

Are you implying we should do whatever we want to?

So it is okay to get some pups and and kittens just to torture them?

No.

Always keep morals in mind. With every thing you do.

Just because we are able to curse most of people out there, should we torture them just because we want to?

No.

This is not even cool either.

This is just plain stupidity and cancer.

I want you to honestly consider if what I said is actually Stupid or Wrong?
----
You have the choice, and you could do something, but there will be consequences. There are even consequences when you do not take action.

What is your opinion on the militaries use of torture to obtain valuable information that could save lives?
----
I do have morals NinRick, no I would never torture an animal. I just want you to think logically.

 

[13th_Wolf]

Don't judge someone unless they've got a gun in your face. Don't forgive someone unless you know them deep in the soul, and CHOOSE to love them in spite of what you may see.

Basically it's a case of soul bonding. You should forgive flippant offenses from your race and people, but the closer it gets the more you can tolerate, but even the flippant things can hurt you so bad if you are that in love and caring for your family/closer ones. When another race/group/organisation is poised against you or you just don't know their intentions and are removed from knowing them, it is very weak to just forgive even flippant offenses from those groups. The nature of that is that they will most likely take advantage and if they gain power in that, will screw you over for their own gains as a separate collective different interests and commonalities from you. It's better to judge earlier than beyond if a person is more unrelated to you. You forgive your brother for costing you some money, because he loves you. But in the case of outer less-related groups you don't do it even to a co-worker, because other groups and in a larger sense the other races or species will take advantage of this forgiveness. The whole office may catch wind of this and also screw with you financially or otherwise mocking you for example. With the external and non-relative groups(and individuals from them) the threshold of forgiveness in this day and age should be very low. Your understanding and awareness of the group and its intentions to you are what raise this a bit higher but there is always a natural maximum with people who are not related to you via race/family. There is no love or established platform of trust(shared genes) for cardinal and genuine love, only an illusive abomination if such a thing is attempted, this relationship has to be detached like the description of Aquarius/Uranus. This planet also rules foreign things especially things distant from you with less direct relation to you, you can use it to help you understand this principle and how to expect to be treated from varying types of individuals from members of your family, then race, to other races and beyond Earth itself. "Alienation" and "Detachment" is what it's about, you don't forgive someone too easily who is detached and alienated from you and doesn't give a shit but only about their own gains, or should I say GENES. The majority of less/non-related beings will take advantage of this and put the gun in your face at the end of the ordeal.

With people of other races I'm not advocating violence only distance and respect as we are common under Satan's creation. The natural law of don't race mix and don't do this "integration" garbage to eachother's groups will never go. It doesn't really require a discussion and anyone can measure for themselves the required distance of this for something like other races. We don't treat an off planet species who could look and think anything bizarre like Cthulu with squid faces and spikes for limbs like we treat someone of the same species as us lol. No debating that it's just clear. That is the highest we know this necessary "alienation" of different beings can go. It makes me wonder what the most "alien" beings to us in this universe might feel like to acknowledge...

But yeah anyway, for human terms if you are removed and alienated from what someone's everyday actions and thoughts are totally, if this person has offended you seriously then there is no mode for you to deal with this through peaceful means either because of them or just because of how it is. Whether you hold that grudge is then a personal deal. This has to be something like bullying or threatening your life, like we would hold a grudge and never forgive the tyrannical jewish governments and never give in to their coldness towards us. If someone bullied you a bit or quite a bit in school or something it's totally up to the person but in varying levels it can be very cathartic and even necessary as a Satanist to do that. As you develop power you choose to burn out the dross and "forgive" or you take revenge and fully clear that debt with the person. I'm more on the revenge and justice side but I'm also easily distracted and don't really give a shit about when I was a kid too much anymore, lol. I just made it a goal to punish those who fucked with me later and it currently doesn't dominate who I am that much to warrant deliberated action.

Everyone is different in that regard. Generally the line is don't take the xian crap about it AT ALL as it is hypocritical to everyday life and even what xians experience every day, just because some lunatic xian women can allow bullshit to occur to them on a daily basis or some crap doesn't equate with reality at all. The xian men when hard times come and are pressured, will forgive little because it's a total joke. When it comes to forgiving big daddy jew though, then they will take it right up the ass and direct all of their "Deus vult" crap towards eachother and kill eachother instead of what we know as the real enemy, as per the spiritual programming they tie into. Forgiveness in xian terms is death and why xianity is a death cult. Everything of the outer forces and organisations against the individual is accepted by them, and "bestowed" ((not imposed goyim, get it right)). It's so contrived and insane in regards to real life and how things flow and move. It even denies the inherent charge and force of life never mind all the supernal stuff like reincarnation and higher planet energies; this is literally why it is a death cult in the purest form. Xians live to forgive, in a world of pressure and changing demands because life is vibrant and has many intriguing and substantial things in it that challenge us to grow. Xianity is a denial of those things and expects some random fart dream("heaven") to take the xian away from the issues they're having that ONLY come from denying their own fulfillment in life BECAUSE of xianity. They live to forgive and trust the outer forces that remove them from life and their existence, total self-undoing. Then they are also cursed in the bible to hate their actual family and race who are the closest to them that they can actually trust. This is why we say xianity is upside down and inversion of normal and realistic values, it literally is. We strive for our own life in it's fullest even non-Satanist Gentiles do because it's literally NORMAL it doesn't need discussing or "theologizing". Xianity in it's absolute depth when discussed by Gentiles, has to debate literally this instinct.

Xianity is a joke, the entire world and how we are permeates from us a different energy and different spiritual requirements. Forgiving those who want to kill us is not even present at all nevermind a ((((((((((((requirement)))))))))))), because naturally as beings we want to live and grow, it's that simple. I grew up in my own family feeling like that and pretty much everyone does because it's the truth, I'm only writing this to put it into words so we can reflect on this.

Anyway, hope that's helpful

 

[RamronDoree]

Everything posted here has been most enlightening. Thank you for clarifying, good people!

 

[NinRick]

A being may do anything they desire as long as they are capable.
----

Horribly wrong.

Are you implying we should do whatever we want to?

So it is okay to get some pups and and kittens just to torture them?

No.

Always keep morals in mind. With every thing you do.

Just because we are able to curse most of people out there, should we torture them just because we want to?

No.

This is not even cool either.

This is just plain stupidity and cancer.

It’s not cool to do anything you want, if this things are parasitic and cancer.

I just wanted to tell you, and everyone else that you always have to keep morals in mind.

I did not want to offend you.

But it sounded like you think that most on here are so cool, because we can do anything we want. And this triggered me a bit, sorry for that.