Case 1:
You say:
Jack said:
This is infact true in highly rare and obscure places. This is so rare that the third category (transvestites) are not that well known. The Hijras (hermaphrodites), kinners(castrated males) are well known. Kinners originated as a corruption during mughal Islamic rule where men were castrated when they refused to convert and these castrated males were also used as sex objects and male attendants by Muslims. So this entire idea that this is an ancient tradition is not true. The research shows that transvestites or people who claim to be modern transgenders (without being hermaphrodite) are not born that way and CAN change.
Refutation:
Mageson wrote:
HP Mageson666 said:
Note as Danielou proves in his works on the Primordial Tradition. Transsexuals where always called the third sex in the Pagan world. It was a custom to hire transsexuals to be part of wedding ceremonies as it was considered good luck as they where beneficial beings and held a special place of honor in society. Families of such individuals where considered blessed and favoured by the Gods, and given extra respects. To be sexually desired or in a relationship with one was a mark of high social status.
It does seem this extends to Homosexuals as well. The third sex category.
His post refutes yours.
Trans were not "more rare" but they had more visibility, and were found in important places or have specialized roles in society. Some of these roles still bleed onto the feminine sector in today's society. It was not highly rare or in obscure places as you would state.
My refutation- Transsexuals first of all did not exist in the ancient world because as history shows transexuals were created by jews by genital mutilation of Transvestites. So no,it does not prove anything. I never argued against the tradition. I live in india and have seen many Hijras and kinners come in the weddings.
Refutation 2:
You acknowledge that it is a corruption from islamic invaders, therefore we can conclude it isn't the true tradition of the 3rd sex.
(My refutation- I said there is no conclusive evidence to show the legitimacy of that sect.
Refutation 3:
There is no evidence as of yet that gay, lesbians, or trans have a specific gene or structure that would make them "be born that way." That is not an argument, because you have no evidence either.
My refutation- I never said there was. I said that because they(transgenders)are not born that way, due to different mental illnesses, they become that way later.
Case two:
Jack said:
I believe that this idea was created and is being normalized by Jews who want to wage a cultural marxist war on society. In their books they claim they want to eradicate gender to easily implement their cultural marxist ideology.
The definition of Cultural Marxism-
The gradual process of destroying all traditions, languages, religions, individuality, government, family, law and order in order to re-assemble society in the future as a communist utopia. This Utopia will have no notion of gender, traditions, morality, god or even family or the state.
Realizing the goal of eliminating the “concept” of man and woman would mean no more traditional sex roles, and it would mean that males and females would become androgynous corporate and government-serving pods.
After all, to use Huxley’s term, viviparous reproduction will become a primitive relic once the New World Communist Order enlightens us all.
The political and ideological movement of cultural marxism came into popular consciousness when the frankfurt school became influential in its power in around the early 20th century. But some form of it has existed sometime earlier, as many articles here have been written about it.
My explanation- Yes and that was around the time Magnus Hirschfeld created that ideology.
Refutation1 :
Political ideology has no bearing on the truth that trans people are born trans.
Trans people have been born for thousands of years, independent of jewish schools of thought.
The concept of male or female has not been eliminated and will not be threatened by the existence of gays, lesbians, or trans people in ancient societies and civilizations. We already have established they have their own roles in society.
My refutation - You just claimed no one is born like that. What are you implying ? As evidenced transgenders were created as an idea in the late 1960's. Whatever the ancients believed, it was not what the jews created.
Refutation 2:
Being born 3rd sex is metagenetic and is part of the soul. Read mageson's sermon on the 3rd sex people and metagenetics.
My explanation - No one argued against it.
Case 3:
Jack said:
Therefore the transvestites are not natural in any way,much less Priestly. There is no historical basis to confirm the legitimacy of this sect other than tradition. These transvestites themselves claim that after being ridiculed by society for their effeminate behavior and ostracism, they concerted to this religion and were 'possessed ' by the goddess to become such. Its proof that this is not natural and they are using religion to claim their behavior is legitimate. Just because it is a somewhat old tradition doesn't make it legitimate as a part of the Sanatana Dharma. For an example, there are a sect in india known as the Aghoris who eat shit ,lace their body with cremation leftovers and shit and meditate on a burial ground(they claim they're doing some kind of meditation. ) They claim to be the true ascetics and that their method unravels the hidden reality of the entire cosmos. Obviously these people are mentally retarded. So why is the other transgender sect more legitimate that these people ? That's right. They're not. We do not have any Gods who claim to be a man in a womans body or vice versa. However we do have a hermaphrodite God.
Refutation 1:
This is faulty reasoning because: you write in detail about the aghoris practices, yet you write none about the trans priests, and therefore you have no basis in your logical conclusion that these practices were illegitimate. The only thing you wrote about trans people was about how feminine they are. "Possessions" are dubious since you provide no further explanation. Your entire paragraph was a nonsequitur.
My refutation - I have no interest in their practices. What I did have an interest was if they believed what the jews believe as being a transgender and I find no proof of that.
Refutation 2:
The authors that wrote disparaging remarks against trans people are from a much later date, are christians or islamic peoples, and therefore do not have the original viewpoint of the gentile culture as they are corrupted by the alien ideology.
My comment - All if the modern sources you have of these communities in a positive light are from later day British india which had already been destroyed by Islamic and Jesuit influence. So that comment goes both ways.
Comment (alarming):
Your view on trans people is revealed when you try to equate trans and the aghoris people together, and by calling them "mentally retarded."
My refutation - There is nothing alarming. What is alarming is when a men believes he is a woman,it is not considered a mental illness.
Comment 2:
You dislike modern trans people, who you claim is a result of jewish interference... but apparently even you dislike ancient trans people when they're gentiles and under the protection of the goddess.
My explanation - I do not dislike trans people because I do not believe they exist.
Comment:
Jack said:
The people promoting this ideology or defending it are using obscure unverified hypotheses about historical claims to justify their own delusions. I do not claim to be all knowing and yet I'm going to attempt to counter all of the claims.
Yet ironically, you posted sources from fringe websites, or long outdated and defunct studies that have no bearing on the current relevant research and literature on trans people.
My refutation - The jews that created this ideology did not believe it to be a mental disease. The gentiles who diagnosed it as such were bested by Jewish cultural marxists who recently gained power over the western academic sphere and now every they promote an ideology their predecessors promoted.
I offer no refutation, because it's just the experiences of a person, so I'll offer comments.
Jack said:
2) Transgenders are being assaulted by Christians so all of their arguments are also wrong
This is like saying because you're a nazi ,what you say doesn't matter. Or because your a white man, your opinion isn't going to be taken seriously. I've gotten almost all of my information from Walt Heyers, a NASA scientist who led the life of a typical transgender as being confused and mentally I'll, then attempting gender reassignment surgery, then sorely regretted it. He de transitioned and now attempts to prevent the same to happen to others. Unfortunately he converted to christianity and believed in some creationist nonsense about God. This isn't really surprising considering the entire medical industrial complex and society duped him, destroyed his life and the only people who he unfortunately ended up with are Christian's. His personal conclusion in life is obviously wrong and thus we as Satanists wont be going into that. The only people who brodcast him are also Christians so that is also unfortunate that you'll find his videos on Christian websites and related. However his argument is solely rational and scientific ,
1)Men claiming to be a woman are going through a mental psychosis, a variety of mental diseases and there is no biological evidence of this being a natural condition.
2)People who created this ideology are Jewish pedophiles.
Are we sympathizing with christians now?
My refutation - No we are not sympathizing with Christians. We are using a reasoning by a person regardless of their religion. There are many Christian anti semites in sermons made by Mageson. By your reasoning I could eliminate all of their antisemitic reasoning because they were Christian's.
You seem to be proud to mention this, as if it's a bearing of his intelligence. The trans argument is not about intelligence, we both know. You should mention him as a christian instead.
My explanation - I couldn't care much about him anyway. What I care about is reasoning behind it all.
1)The historical basis.
2)A logical basis.
This is like saying because you're a nazi ,what you say doesn't matter. Or because your a white man, your opinion isn't going to be taken seriously.
???
This is a Satanists forum. Of course we aren't going to take the word of christians seriously, as their viewpoints come from the bible. Which we have been trying to undo via reverse rituals.
My refutation- As above then youd remove all of the Gentile antisemites who were Christian's and their arguments on the jews (that involved reasoning and not religion.)
unfortunately he converted to christianity and believed in some creationist nonsense about God.
This is not a coincidence.
My explanation -It is indeed not. Jews play both sides . After escaping a horrendous Jewish psychosis he gets inside a Jewish religion.
The only people who brodcast him are also Christians so that is also unfortunate that you'll find his videos on Christian websites and related. However his argument is solely rational and scientific ,
Gee, I wonder why. :roll:
Also christian, and rational/scientific in the same sentence does not mix.
My explanation - Then any scientists who had personally been Christian and advanced science in whatever small contribution they made are to be discarded because of their personal religion. ? It seems to be that you cannot differentiate between rationality and religion.
Walt heyers viewpoints are extremely christian, as his trans re-conversion was aided and guided by a christian priest. Therefore his arguments will have a christian school of thought. His conversion was a priest rescuing him, just like how christians argue that people need to be rescued by jewsus.
My explanation - His arguments were based on rational and historical facts and not Christian thought. His personal conclusion was guided by Christian thought.
His views.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC99Oqfe9g0
He claims that "god did not make trans people." this is the basis for his ideologies and the push for his ideas.
My explanation - That is his personal conclusion in life. If we remove his religion, the rational and historical facts still remain. I maintain the right to replace Christianity with Satanism ,meditation and yoga with hypnotherapy in my conclusion.
please stop pushing christian thoughts/philosophies here, heck use someone else as a source. all this does is affirm the bible and its curses against humanity.
My explanation - I do not promote Christian philosophies. I am directly opposed to the Christian school of thought. I believe there are three genders, male, female and hermaphrodites and three sexualities homosexuals, heterosexuals and bisexuals. I believe that transgender I.e a man who believes he is a woman is an idea legitimized and created by Jews of which I have evidence of.