TOR and VPNs

[The Alchemist7 [TG]]

I've been looking into this for several days and couldn't find any answer.
Can your VPN, be it free or paid, see what you are doing on Tor? Assuming that the VPN keep logs, and I believe they all do despite their claim that they don't, can they see what websites are you visiting on Tor? Our ISP can only see that we are connected to Tor but cannot see what we do there, so how a VPN would be able to see your activity? Where I want to get to is this:
Get a VPN to hide my Tor usage from my ISP.
Get Tor to hide the traffic so the VPN can only see that I use Tor, without seeing what I do in it.
Therefore in theory the first Tor node gets the false IP from the VPN and the VPN cannot do nothing with logging my activity because they can't see what I do there, therefore is useless for them if they have my real IP because they can't sell any data since Tor encypts the traffic and they can't see it. It is true or VPNs can actually see what you do in Tor?

I heard the advice of using Tails with Tor, which I am doing now, but still this doesn't protect from the ISP seeing that I use Tor. I noticed that apparently ISP providers don't like to see Tor users in their networks, altough it's legal I would rather prefer my ISP not to know at all.

If you know other `tools` that hides all the internet activity from the ISP, it would be appreciated.

 

[Henu the Great]

I've been looking into this for several days and couldn't find any answer.
Can your VPN, be it free or paid, see what you are doing on Tor? Assuming that the VPN keep logs, and I believe they all do despite their claim that they don't, can they see what websites are you visiting on Tor? Our ISP can only see that we are connected to Tor but cannot see what we do there, so how a VPN would be able to see your activity? Where I want to get to is this:
Get a VPN to hide my Tor usage from my ISP.
Get Tor to hide the traffic so the VPN can only see that I use Tor, without seeing what I do in it.
Therefore in theory the first Tor node gets the false IP from the VPN and the VPN cannot do nothing with logging my activity because they can't see what I do there, therefore is useless for them if they have my real IP because they can't sell any data since Tor encypts the traffic and they can't see it. It is true or VPNs can actually see what you do in Tor?

I heard the advice of using Tails with Tor, which I am doing now, but still this doesn't protect from the ISP seeing that I use Tor. I noticed that apparently ISP providers don't like to see Tor users in their networks, altough it's legal I would rather prefer my ISP not to know at all.

If you know other `tools` that hides all the internet activity from the ISP, it would be appreciated.

You could use tor bridge. https://support.torproject.org/censorship/censorship-7/ Vpn hides your traffic from ISP too.

I am not sure if you have understood tor correctly. It is an anonymizing service. You can choose anonymization, but then you can not have privacy. Exit nodes have your data, but do not know it is your data. When you choose privacy, you will lose anonymization. Like when you connect to vpn you have privacy (encrypted traffic), but they know it is your data. They see ip addresses, but nothing else.

With some tools and knowledge it is possible to gather enough data to de-anonymize traffic. That is topic of another discussion.

In case you want to read about the subject, I found something: https://github.com/AnarchoTechNYC/CTF/wiki/Tor

If you are looking for a complete anonymity and privacy you should use someone elses network and connect trough a vpn with a device that you do not use for any other purpose. Even then os should be hardened to the core for extra security, like tails. Other os exist too, and you can build your own also.

 

[The Alchemist7 [TG]]

You could use tor bridge. https://support.torproject.org/censorship/censorship-7/ Vpn hides your traffic from ISP too.

I know that VPN hides browsing data from the ISP, the question is if the VPN can see what we browse on Tor, because if they can then it's nearly the same as not using a VPN at all. If the VPN can see that I connect to Tor but cannot see what I visit there then I can just get a free reputable VPN and use it to connect to Tor so it can hide my internet activity both from my ISP and the VPN I use. I know how Tor works but still I want to get an answer on this question to be sure, I couldn't find one anywhere.

 

[Henu the Great]

You could use tor bridge. https://support.torproject.org/censorship/censorship-7/ Vpn hides your traffic from ISP too.

I know that VPN hides browsing data from the ISP, the question is if the VPN can see what we browse on Tor, because if they can then it's nearly the same as not using a VPN at all. If the VPN can see that I connect to Tor but cannot see what I visit there then I can just get a free reputable VPN and use it to connect to Tor so it can hide my internet activity both from my ISP and the VPN I use. I know how Tor works but still I want to get an answer on this question to be sure, I couldn't find one anywhere.

As I mentioned using a tor bridge is recommended.

As for free vpn service. That is not a good idea. How are they going ot make money when there are no paying customers? Selling your data they are. So find a reputable non-free service from a country that does not work closely with Five Eyes spying network and go from there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes#Other_international_cooperatives

Vpn service provider do not know your data, but they know the ip you are connected to. So using a tor bridge is something to consider. I personally just connect to vpn straight with no worries.